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Good or Bad lay down?

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Good or Bad lay down? - Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:24 PM
(#1)
adsthepro777's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 630


Good or Bad Fold?
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:16 PM
(#2)
alanj28's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
nice disciplined laydown that 8 4 psychic didnt like the double paired board coming haha


 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 07:50 PM
(#3)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
It really is impossible to gauge whether a fold is solid or not when no information is given on the table/opponents.

If you can chuck in some general opponent stats ie vpip/pfr/af , it would help people analyse your hands better.
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 08:20 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Sens Fan View Post
It really is impossible to gauge whether a fold is solid or not when no information is given on the table/opponents.

If you can chuck in some general opponent stats ie vpip/pfr/af , it would help people analyse your hands better.

THIS

ads it's more important in cash table spots than in any other type of game to have some information on the villains for analyzers to give you a helpful answer.

Sometimes in SNG's and MTT's stack sizes and other consideration's make it near impossible to lay down hands at times,you simply HAVE to get it in.

But when you're playing a cash table and are playing as deep as you are here then reads become much more important.

What,if any,stats did you have on the villain? That can help us to get an idea of their range,which is huge in judging whether or not this is a good lay down or not.

Even better did you have a solid read of this villain being capable of shoving pairs that your Q's beat? How about Ax,ever seen them get it in pre with that? Any 2 broadways?

All of this becomes much more important in a deep stack setting than in shorter stack scenarios where you will be in many more spots where going with a premium hand is just rote,come Hell or high water.
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 10:25 PM
(#5)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
As the two previous posters noted it is impossible to form an opinion on your line without additional information on your opponents. Give us the info and we can offer up an opinion or two.
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:02 PM
(#6)
stedy_eddie's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 326
BronzeStar
IMO its a terrible laydown. The idiot who shoved is never having AA or KK here as 99% of players are going to want to get paid so they're going to raise it 30c ish. A player who shoves with that stack in a $2 cash buy in to take down 15c is almost allways stealing. You have to 'have a little gamble in you' here and call even if you do run into AK here like you would have your still ahead and are going to be profitable in the long run. And in the very very rare occasion that he does shove AA or KK (which in itself is a terrible play) you just have to accept the lose and move on. Its going to happen so rarely with this kind of play that it's not worth thinking about, and if your folding QQ then you playing to tight and people will be taking advantage of that and you'll end up with lots of losing sessions.
This is just my opinion and others might disagree but at this level i recon you've got to be calling here.
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:24 PM
(#7)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
With no reads, I'm shoving here too. There are a lot of players that will do this with worse than pocket queens at 2NL, and I'm usually up for a race in a cash game.

In a tournament, it would depend a lot more on my relative chip stack, where I was in the tourney, etc.

 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:31 PM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi ads,

Like previous posters, I agree completely the answer can be dependent on reads and info. For instance, if the shover is a wild, crazy maniac, the only real question would be how many fist pumps to make before calling him. If the shover is a super nitty rock who has had his aces cracked twice this session already, this is a fairly easy fold since he's probably just tilt-"protecting" his AA or KK this time.

Without any reads, in a vacuum, I'm calling this action. You don't often see someone do this with AA or KK because they want to get paid with those hands, you will see them on a goofy steal a lot. The "real" hands you'll see in this spot a ton are middle pairs (they think you will all fold and if they get called they'll be racing, not a good thought process but that's what they think) or AK. So I think without some info just in general I expect QQ to play very well here. And I'm not worried about the short stacked flatter, they will usually 3b themselves if they have AA or KK so whether they fold or overcall with the worst hand is no big deal.

Dave


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