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Dealing with limpers

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Dealing with limpers - Wed Jul 18, 2012, 05:57 PM
(#1)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
hey guys!

I've been playing some $0.25 45-men and as you know, limpers is a common disease there lol.
Cuz sometimes I get some playable hands like AT on the button or on the cutoff, but there have been several limpers. And I feel I can't go and raise 3x + 1BB for each limper cuz it would be too much of the stack, and the pot would be so big that folding the flop would be a bad idea and I would have to shove the flop or the river if I was going to bet. But folding hands like these in those positions seems too tight for me, and not using good opportunities (good hand + position) to increase my stack.


What u guys think ?


Thanks and GL at the tables !
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:29 PM
(#2)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
OPEN limping is bad,always. Do not do it except for the possible exception of every once in a great while just as a "change-up" play and even then only at a level where you see a lot of the same players over and over and they are good enough to be paying attention. Since this describes only 5% of the players in the .25 games (I'm probably being wildly generous in that estimation...) don't ever bother with it in those games.

Limping along with speculative hands can be perfectly OK though. What you don't want is to do it out of position very often (if at all) and you don't want to overpay to do it. That means to not make it a habit when it's later on in the SNG and the blinds are biting off a larger piece of your stack. But very early when making a commitment of 1 or 2 BB's out of a 50+ BB stack it's fine. Extra bonus here as well is that if you flop very big at this stage of the 45 mans (first 1-3 blind levels) there are still plenty of fish that can and will pay you off big if they hit ANY piece of the board.

Later in the game,when you get to 30BB's down to say 10,the mid-level stages,you want to conserve your chips and look for those spots where you can take down big pots from the shorties who will be getting their chips in. Limping along here much,if at all,is spewy.

And even later when the bubble approaches it gets even sketchier to do so. You want to be making bold moves at that stage and should really only be playing hands that you're capable of getting it in with. Now at this and the mid game stage if you are fortunate enough to be very deep stack wise (50+) then it's OK to see a flop or two by limping a speculative hand yes,but again you don't want to overdo it and get spewy.


So yeah,at the right time of the tourney playing "follow the limper(s)" can be OK. Just try to do it when it's most advantageous to you to do so (position,position,position...) and have a clear plan in your head of what you want to do according to what kind of board flops. Having a plan will put you ahead of 95% of the opponents,who are mostly following this strategy...

"button....shiny....click".

Good luck/better decisions.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Wed Jul 18, 2012 at 06:32 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:42 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,787
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi fp_boss77!

I agree with Moxie on this. I will gladly limp behind with speculative hands, but I don't want to open-limp.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 06:55 PM
(#4)
m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
BronzeStar


Let them bet in the 45 mans even when u hit the flop. 1st half hour they will chip you up without u having to raise.
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 10:16 PM
(#5)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
WOW.. this hand that u played is crazy, to say at least.. what the guys with AT and K9o were thinking... god...

but I mean in a situation where u have a hand like 99,AT,KJ. If you were on the button/cutoff you would certainly play these hands, but if there are some limpers, when u raise a standard raise, there are two problems:
1- You will maybe put too much chips that you would rarely fold the flop.
2-with so many limpers, these hands don't sound 'playable' anymore, at least from my point of view.

Would u guys still raise these hands ? that are certainly WAY ahead of the limpers range of course.
 
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Wed Jul 18, 2012, 11:46 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by fp_boss77 View Post
WOW.. this hand that u played is crazy, to say at least.. what the guys with AT and K9o were thinking... god...

but I mean in a situation where u have a hand like 99,AT,KJ. If you were on the button/cutoff you would certainly play these hands, but if there are some limpers, when u raise a standard raise, there are two problems:
1- You will maybe put too much chips that you would rarely fold the flop.
2-with so many limpers, these hands don't sound 'playable' anymore, at least from my point of view.

Would u guys still raise these hands ? that are certainly WAY ahead of the limpers range of course.

Like so many other questions in poker...


...IT DEPENDS.

I know that may not be the exact answer that you're looking for fp,but it's the most honest answer I can give you.

Where in the SNG/MTT are we? Early? Mid-game? Bubble? Bubble Burst? FT?

What are the effective stack sizes? Where does MY stack fit in and how are some stacks positioned around the table in relation to me?

Do I have some solid info/reads on any of the opps?

All of this and so many other variables come into play.


With hands like AT or KJ you have to be very careful because gapped hands carry inherent risks to them. Mid pairs like 66-1010,even JJ can be tricky because if you get aggressive pre and get called it's likely that at least 1 over will flop. But play it weak and you're taking a strong hand like at the top end of this (99-JJ) and making it weak.

Like I said in the earlier post---I think the key to playing speculative hands in mult-limped pots is more in limiting the risk to your stack and position. Hand strength is less important than those 2 factors IMO,as if I'm playing a hand in that manner then it doesn't much matter if it's 54s or 99 the parameters of HOW I'm playing the hand at that point are the same---it's "fit or fold" poker,either the flops helps me a lot or I'm gone.

The thing about should you raise from position with a more speculative type hand after multi-limpers...well I'm pretty aggressive myself but in the .25 games you really are never going to get more than the most timid players to fold to say a 5x or 6x bet (forget 3x's...) after they have put money in the pot. So I would always tend to lean to the limp along and see what the flop brings mentality myself. You're deep enough early to do this some.

Later on shorter stacks you have to be playing a more selective range of hands more aggressively.

Hope this was helpful.
 
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Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:06 AM
(#7)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
hey fp, i recently missinterperated jw,s advice on 3x plus 1 for each limper, been first to act i thought 3x and still 1 bb per person in the pot, this actually worked very well as the hands i was raising on anyway utg i was willing to go all in .

So say i had aces utg and the blinds were 20 on a 9man table i was raising to 200.

I also did this a few times in posisition and it seemed to work well also.

I too have noticed 45ppl sngs 25c there as been an awfull lot of limpers, earlier today i ended up just messing about and playing with them raising muck on the bb etc pre and taking them down,

Some called and set up some great lag traps with q5 etc, but again down to dynamics of the table

I think calling the limpers with marginal hands is bad play but raising them and isolating a bit allows you to float etc create a bluff or too actuallly hit some lag monsters

But to me its down to the style you are comfy with,if you prefer the tag approach still the same i like to isolate the pot down

At the end of the day if you can get the pot to heads up preflop, your 79 off suit looks good in posisition, they normally are only calling you with overs so its quite an easy read of the situation,unless you have a sklled lag player mixing it with you
 
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Thu Jul 19, 2012, 01:04 PM
(#8)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Thanks for the advices guys !
It was really helpful.
 

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