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How to extract value

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How to extract value - Thu Jul 19, 2012, 05:01 PM
(#1)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604


This hand was early on My second hand at the table. No history with the Villain, but this is a spot I struggle with whats the best why to get the max value from this kind of hand?


Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Jul 19, 2012, 08:47 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Grade b,

I think most people tend to check/call the flop and check/raise the turn in a spot like this, or check/raise directly on the flop. Not sure that's the best line to maximize value however as it looks very strong on a fairly dry board... the only legit draw is JT. On a wet board I like this line a lot more as players will credit you with a draw many times and stack off overpairs.

There's really no great answer when you're out of position AND readless. But I can give you a couple alternative ideas to the 2 common lines above:

-Donk the flop. I see this a lot with players donking the flop into the preflop raiser with a draw or marginal 1 pair hand. I almost never see it with a monster, so it's a nice deceptive line. The trouble is people fold to it directly a lot, and sometimes get overly cautious. And it costs you the c-bet when the villain whiffed.

-Check/call flop, lead turn. This is a line I like for several reasons. First, it gets that c-bet in, and unlike the check/raise option it also allows the opponent who has just big cards to spike a pair on the turn. Second, it prevents a free card on the turn which fails to grow the pot, forcing money to go in or the villain to fold (If they don't c-bet and check back the flop, you were extremely unlikely to be getting 3 streets of value anyway so this is not a disaster). Third, and this is a nice factor... people aren't used to seeing this line. When you take a non-standard line that people aren't used to seeing, they often don't know what to do, and that makes them prone to making a mistake. This line works even better when the turn card brings back door draws, because players will sometimes make the mistake of thinking you are semi-bluffing a draw you picked up, and float or raise you.

With reads of course you can adjust your line to maximize value a lot easier by exploiting your opponent's leaks, and I might play this spot 3 totally different ways against 3 different opponents.

No idea which line works best at 5nl vs. unknown randoms, but hopefully this gives you some food for thought and something to experiment with.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
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4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:00 PM
(#3)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Thanks for that Dave i shall try that line of call lead or donk lead next time.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Jul 21, 2012, 10:29 AM
(#4)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
woohoo,


Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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