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Recreational numbers vs Pro or grinder numbers

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Recreational numbers vs Pro or grinder numbers - Mon Jul 23, 2012, 04:01 PM
(#1)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Here are some statistics on 10 of the top MTT players (greater than 180 players) for the last 30 days

These numbers are per player for 30 days:
- Average number of games played is 650
- Average total cost is $20,000
- Average total net earnings is $35,000
- Average non winning streak is 35
- Average ITM is 14.75%
- Average number of final table is 2.5%
- Average ROI is 145%

So, what does all these numbers mean?

- If you look at the average number of games played by these players, there is no doubt we can't even come close. This is what differentiates grinders, pro's from recreational players like us.
- The average expense per month for these MTT's for those players can't even compare to most of us playing $0.10 or $1.10, nor do we come close to 1/100 of their earnings.
- The average non winning streak is 35 games without a win, which for them is almost a full day. But for us mortals, if we play 10 games a week, that means we could be a whole month without a win.
- The average ITM of 14.75% translated to recreational player of 10 games a week would mean that we would make the money once in 7 games. This could be minimum cash and not necessarily a final table. These players averaged 2.5% final table, so with our 10 games a week, we would make the final table once every 5 weeks
- Their average return on investment is due to the high buy-ins, because, as you will see from the next statistics, the low buy-ins we play, we could say, that they are no better than us...LOL

I categorized the buy-ins in 4 levels (average is by players in one month)

$1.00 - $11.00
Games played 150
ROI -34%
ITM 12.6%

$12.00 - $44.00
Games played 230
ROI 24%
ITM 12.5%

$45.00 - $88.00
Games played 160
ROI 55%
ITM 17.2%

$89.00 - $530.00
Games played 110
ROI 236%
ITM 17.6%

We can't compare our numbers with the ones of grinders and pro's. They have a bigger bankroll, they play more games than we do. Having those opportunities, they can afford to play ATC or have a bigger range of cards. They can afford to take chances or gamble. I also notice from watching some of them play, if they are way ahead in 3-4 tournaments, they will open up their range by lots in the others. That's something we don't have the opportunity to do, as our next game is in a week.

Also, when people complain about bad beats, remember, those players also get hit. The difference is in the numbers, if you were to play 650 games a month, you wouldn't see them as much.
 
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Mon Jul 23, 2012, 05:27 PM
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PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
Thanks for the Info
 
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Mon Jul 23, 2012, 07:50 PM
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Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
We can't compare our numbers with the ones of grinders and pro's. They have a bigger bankroll, they play more games than we do. Having those opportunities, they can afford to play ATC or have a bigger range of cards. They can afford to take chances or gamble. I also notice from watching some of them play, if they are way ahead in 3-4 tournaments, they will open up their range by lots in the others. That's something we don't have the opportunity to do, as our next game is in a week.
I don't understand the logic here. Could you elaborate on why you think this is an advantage.
 
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Mon Jul 23, 2012, 08:04 PM
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m.bisland's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,260
BronzeStar
Heres mine still got 4 1st place finishes so it might go up a bit.

$0.25 - $2.20
Games played 328
ROI 17%
ITM 19%

Year 2012 98.91% $428 8% 1,581 14% 8,132 of 749,027
 
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Mon Jul 23, 2012, 08:40 PM
(#5)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
I don't understand the logic here. Could you elaborate on why you think this is an advantage.
Basically my statement as to do with them being under chip average.

Don't know if you ever took the time to watch these players, but I did
They have plenty of games going on at the same time. When a game becomes low stack or they fall below average stack, their range opens up and they play more hands compare to the ones that they are above average chips.

The difference between them and us as to do with numbers. If I play the Storm, I want to make sure I get into the money as my next Storm is next week. For them it's no worry since they'll be playing 150 games by next week.

As an example, one of them on Sunday was fishing for a straight and got it on the river, runner runner. (79o with no 7 or 9 on the board)
PS. Not the only story I can tell

Hope this answers your question
 
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Mon Jul 23, 2012, 08:54 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.bisland View Post
Heres mine still got 4 1st place finishes so it might go up a bit.

$0.25 - $2.20
Games played 328
ROI 17%
ITM 19%

Year 2012 98.91% $428 8% 1,581 14% 8,132 of 749,027
The research I did was on MTT's not SnG Mtt's
If you want to compare, look at the MTT Tournaments (Greater than 500 players)
 
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Mon Jul 23, 2012, 11:56 PM
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fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Very impressive ROI.

Thanks for the post
 

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