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STT $ 1,50, Q7o, push?

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STT $ 1,50, Q7o, push? - Fri Jul 27, 2012, 03:47 PM
(#1)
ahcrata's Avatar
Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Reads:

The villain is tight.

Was watching that hand and I have a doubt if my push was good. What do you think about that?
 
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Fri Jul 27, 2012, 05:47 PM
(#2)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
Good shove. You get a load of folds here and even when you don't you can still suck out. Just unlucky you ran in to a hand.
Rob.
 
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Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:08 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hi ahcrata!

I would NOT shove here and here's why......

First, the opp is tight, so they are just as likely to fold to a smaller bet as to a shove. Due to this, I can make a std raise (3BB) and have the same effect, which is the play that I'll make. If the opp does shove, then I can re-evaluate. Shoving here is only really going to accomplish one thing... value-owning myself. I'm going to fold out worse hands than mine and only get called by better. I'd much rather do this with a smaller bet, that helps to protect my chip position. With this being an STT, I'm looking to get to a top 3 chip stack to get ITM and I don't want to put more chips at risk with a very marginal hand, if I don't have to.

I want to play the hand AFTER the flop in position, so that I can use this against the opponent and will therefore make a std raise and not shove.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

P.S. It seems like all the hands that you play are either shoves or folds preflop. To consistantly win at these over the long-term, I'd highly advise that you look at learning to play after the flop, so that you can take position into account and learn how to use this against your opponents. It will make you a much better player in the long run.


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Fri Jul 27, 2012, 08:52 PM
(#4)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I disagree with JWK here

(and believe me that does not happen often and I will probably have to retract later!)

If the opp is tight (and so am I) I am raising wider and if I am raising I am shoving here,

If he has a big hand - like AK here - then we get called - but still have decent equity.

How often do they have that good a hand?

I don't think we have enough chips to raise/fold or raise and play good post-flop poker - so for me this is fold or shove - and the hand is not so bad for hand equity if we get called so I would shove.

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 10:09 AM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hey Ed!

I didn't say that I'm folding... I said I'd re-evalate if needed.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 10:19 AM
(#6)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hey Ed!

I didn't say that I'm folding... I said I'd re-evalate if needed.

John (JWK24)
I'm just shoving so that I don't have to re-evaluate following a called raise - fair enough if the blinds fold, but post flop with chips in we are going to struggle, so I prefer maximising the fold equity. They might fold better hands (ace high/king high) but when they call with better we still have decent equity preflop.

I don't want to have to re-evaluate if there is a potential that my re-evaluation might lead to a fold -having put in so many chips - so I either fold pre - which I think is too tight against the blinds - or I am shoving.

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 01:18 PM
(#7)
folkstix's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 55
I agree. I'm only std raising if I think the player is observant enough to find that suspicious with our stack size and I think they will read it as aces or kings looking for a shove over the top. Otherwise I'm straight shoving.
 
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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 03:07 PM
(#8)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
Am I the only one that thinks folding is best here ?

The bb has only 5 bb's and is likely to call us with a massive range of hands, the SB will call a little tighter.

Raise folding is never ever an option, we are not going to raise even and then fold to the bb's 5 bb shove.

Not an stt guy but this seems like an easy fold for me.
 
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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 03:46 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Chris,

If the opp was not very tight, I agree with a muck here 100%. Against any opp that would call looser, I do not want to give the opp any extra chips, as they should be playing basically ATC here. The one way where I would raise is against a tight opp that will likely fold.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 07:33 PM
(#10)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
Surely raise-folding here is the worst option? I can understand the case for just folding, it’s true you can’t love Q 7 os. But with less than 9BB effective stacks, even against the small blind, once you are in the pot you can’t fold so you may as well maximize your fold equity by pushing. A clear shove / fold decision I’d say. The fact the read is that the BB is tight would incline me to put as much pressure on him as possible.
One thing in favor pf the fold is the fact that there are still six players left so the bubble fear factor hasn't really kicked in yet.
Rob..

Last edited by RobinQQQ; Sat Jul 28, 2012 at 07:42 PM.. Reason: typo.
 

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