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SNG, $1.50, early phase, pair of queens

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SNG, $1.50, early phase, pair of queens - Sat Jul 28, 2012, 11:14 AM
(#1)
marino563's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Hi guys,

Just wondering how you all would have played this. It was only 3 hands in so I have no read on the villain. I had a pair of queens and an ace came on the flop, and the villain checked. I would have folded immediately to any bet because of the ace, however i bet after he checked. Given the overcard should I just have checked as well? I do think he got lucky with the river but I could have lost very little if I'd have just checked to that stage.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=75AC952151
 
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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 03:24 PM
(#2)
ahcrata's Avatar
Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
I would play the same way. You will be a winner in long run if you do moves like that. The villain does a check on the flop showing weakness. Players who have Aces, Set or Two Pairs on this flop try to protect theirs hands doing a bet out of position. Sometimes players do traps. Take care.

The bet size was good on the Flop and on the Turn.
 
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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 03:44 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,812
(Super-Moderator)
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Hi marino563!

With QQ and a standard raise early in a tourney, I'm going to 3-bet with QQ here and I would size it at 3X the opp's raise or 180.

The flop brings an overcard, straight draw and flush draw. The opp checks to me here and I'm going to follow up with my std c-bet for this type of board, which is 2/3 pot. The opp calls, so they most likely either hit a part of the board (or they are making a -EV play by drawing).

The turn pairs the board, so now I'm also behind a 2. The opp checks again and since there is no way for me to know that I have the best hand, I'm checking behind here for pot control. If I did bet, due to the size of the pot and the stack that I have left, I would be forced to shove and I do not want to shove early in ANY tourney unless I know that I have the best hand. Most opps should have an ace here and if I shove, then I have a whole 2 outs, which means that I'm value-owning myself.

I got lucky that the opp called with a 3-out draw (a very -EV play) but then got unlucky that they hit the river.

I'm going to check the turn for pot control and then re-evaluate on the river and when another overcard hits, I'm going to call a very small bet, but fold to any sizable bet, as I'll be beat here almost everytime by an A or a K.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 04:50 PM
(#4)
folkstix's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 55
I agree 100% with John. When he calls the cbet I'm slowing down on the turn. Your hand has some showdown value and in most cases the shove will only get called by a hand we are dominated by. This happens to be the exception and unfortunately we get unlucky on the river.

A fold on the river still leaves us with a lot of chips to play with.
 
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Sat Jul 28, 2012, 08:15 PM
(#5)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
Yuk, nasty river. I think that the turn check is probably the best play then the River is an easy, if unpleasant, fold to his likely raise.
Rob.
 
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Wed Aug 01, 2012, 08:50 AM
(#6)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
This hand is pretty standard at this buy in. I am jamming the turn with QQ every time in this situation. If he has an Ax he is not flatting your cbet ..... he is in fact peeing his pants and re popping you and until these donkeys prove me otherwise in this early stage this is played just like you did!

If he has Ax or pockets 22 then god bless him and we fire up another. We have to price him out of a draw and any chips you put in the pot on the turn commits your stack so just shove, high 5 the screen and say eat it b****

May I suggest that you don't post the whole hand next time so the result is not revealed! It is very easy for me and others to offer suggestions when we know the result!

 
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Wed Aug 01, 2012, 09:34 AM
(#7)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
This hand is pretty standard at this buy in. I am jamming the turn with QQ every time in this situation. If he has an Ax he is not flatting your cbet ..... he is in fact peeing his pants and re popping you and until these donkeys prove me otherwise in this early stage this is played just like you did!

If he has Ax or pockets 22 then god bless him and we fire up another. We have to price him out of a draw and any chips you put in the pot on the turn commits your stack so just shove, high 5 the screen and say eat it b****

May I suggest that you don't post the whole hand next time so the result is not revealed! It is very easy for me and others to offer suggestions when we know the result!

I see what you're saying and your right you do price out the draws so in the long run you make money from the shove. Trouble is, though the draws may be priced out do they know it? For me that makes it read dependent (and lets be honest) a bit mood dependent too. It's also a bit early in the tourney for me to be jamming a one pair hand so bit of pot control does no harm.
Any plans to make any more training Vids there doesn't seem to be an STT specialist making any for PSO at the mo?
Rob.
 
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Wed Aug 01, 2012, 12:41 PM
(#8)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Robin it is a micro game of which I have played thousands and I made the assumption you are bankrolled for these. Under that assumption is how I make the comment of jamming because the norm is a donkey like this and not having you beat.
I have been putting together some videos to be released on you tube so stay tuned.

 
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Wed Aug 01, 2012, 09:36 PM
(#9)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
Yes I'm playing this level and your right you do see a lot of bad play. For me as a personal thing I'd need a positive read that the opp was a donk before I shoved. I'm not saying it's a terrible play, I would just play it differently lacking that read.
Look forward to your new videos.
Rob.
 
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Sat Aug 04, 2012, 01:02 AM
(#10)
siberianex's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 38
As I understand it, this is a 9 man SNG. You cant win this in the first few levels so you must
have some pot control early.

With QQ, I don't mind a raise to 180 or a flat call in position, especially since we do not know the player yet.
When he just calls your 3 bet, he most likely does not have you beat with KK or AA.

On the flop, I don't think you need to bet as much as 240 here, because he is calling you regardless if he has an Ace, a Jack or a draw. I would either a) check back for pot control or b) cbet at a smaller number like 150 - 180.
Once he calls your cbet, there really isn't much point in betting the turn, so just check back.
On the King of heart river, the only bet I am calling is if it is really tiny (like a min bet), because pretty much every draw got there, and you are not beating a thing.

This way, you are pot controlling and you are still in the tournament. Going all in with QQ on the turn is virtual suicide even if he called you with middle pair. Most times that would be the bottom of someones range. If someone is giving you this advise, they need to look at their own game.

Hope this helps :-)
 
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Sat Aug 04, 2012, 01:54 AM
(#11)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by siberianex View Post
As I understand it, this is a 9 man SNG. You cant win this in the first few levels so you must
have some pot control early.

With QQ, I don't mind a raise to 180 or a flat call in position, especially since we do not know the player yet.
When he just calls your 3 bet, he most likely does not have you beat with KK or AA.

On the flop, I don't think you need to bet as much as 240 here, because he is calling you regardless if he has an Ace, a Jack or a draw. I would either a) check back for pot control or b) cbet at a smaller number like 150 - 180.
Once he calls your cbet, there really isn't much point in betting the turn, so just check back.
On the King of heart river, the only bet I am calling is if it is really tiny (like a min bet), because pretty much every draw got there, and you are not beating a thing.

This way, you are pot controlling and you are still in the tournament. Going all in with QQ on the turn is virtual suicide even if he called you with middle pair. Most times that would be the bottom of someones range. If someone is giving you this advise, they need to look at their own game.

Hope this helps :-)
+1 Post more please.


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