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45ppl 25c sng pp 10s

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45ppl 25c sng pp 10s - Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:57 AM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=72576D6DA3

Not much info on the opp, was early stages, But i also knew he had not much info on me at this time

does any one see this as I see it with my my thoughts?

I am defending all day long for 3x and on the BB

The flop comes I see no danger in a cbet

the opp calls

the turn brings an ace, im all ready confident the opp as an ace

I check, he bets 100, I then reraise representing a bigger ace or the 7 for the set, with a view to pushing the river on a floating bluff

The opp flat calls my raise

the river comes pfff, i got lucky and no longer to bluff a hand ,had made an hand so casual value bets
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:41 AM
(#2)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
Poker terms are a bit off I think, unless I watched it too quick and misread.

Flop was not a cbet, it was a donkbet (ie. call a raise in the first round then bet into the raiser in the next round)

Name can be deceiving in that it can be a deceptive maneouver / blockbet by experienced players.... anyways I digress

Seemed like an interesting hand though.

Yes definitely defending that sexy hand in the bb all day long, sometimes 3b depending on villain. If it had of been a late position raise I would lean more towards the 3b but from an earlier raise I generally give some respect.

Flop - I'm not a fan of betting into him like that

Don't like the min c/r on turn but to each his own I suppose.

River sure made what would have been a tough decision rather easy, good bet sizing as well.

Thanks for sharing

Last edited by Da Sens Fan; Tue Jul 31, 2012 at 02:44 AM..
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:15 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi holdemace486!

With pocket 10's being out of position, I'm going to make a std 3-bet to 180 here if the opp has been playing passively. If I call, the only way I can be sure I'm ahead is if I hit a set on a dry board. With this being the case, I won't have the lead and be out of position and will not know whether I have the best hand or not.... so I do not want to call to defend (calling and not 3-betting here is going to be a big chip leak if done regularly). By 3-betting, I'll also have the lead in the hand.
However, if the opp is known to be aggressive, I'm mucking these preflop since it's early and don't want to take an unnecessary chance this early in a tourney.

The flop brings a pair and suited connectors that give a straight, flush or combo draw. This type of flop is another reason that I do not want to just call their bet preflop..... because I have no clue whether or not I'm ahead. If I'm ahead, then I want to value bet. If not, then I want to check, hoping they will check behind to give me a free card.
A bet here would NOT be a c-bet... because by calling preflop, I never raised, so I can't continue what was never started.
If I had raised preflop, then I would c-bet 2/3 pot there (to price out the draws). But, because there was no raise by me preflop, I need to donk-bet the flop for 2/3 pot to price out any draws and to try to get the lead in the hand.

The flop brings an A, but does not help the flush or straight. If I would have raised pre and c-bet the flop and the opp called... then the A should not have helped them at all, as they should have folded the flop unless they have A7s or A8s, in which case, I'm crushed.
Because of the passive call preflop, then flop bet... they could have 2 overs to the flop, especially early in a tourney, and if they have an A, I'm now behind.
With no read on the opp (a big problem here) and without raising preflop (another problem), this is a very tough situation. My two choices are to bet 2/3 pot again (if I think that the opp does not have an A) or to check and fold/call depending on how large their bet is. I would call a very small bet and fold to any sizable bet.
The one thing that I absolutely do not want to do here is to check/raise small, as I don't know that I have the best hand and if I did raise, any bet lower than 2/3 pot will be a -EV play... FOR ME! I want the opp making -EV plays, not a play where I will lose chips on average, each and every single time.
A min raise here is just throwing chips to the opponent, as any knowledgable opponent will see that this min-raise just screams weakness and should immediately 3-bet shove... and there is no way that pocket 10's can call expecting to have only 2 outs. Any bet over 4% of the pot would be a negative call for the pocket 10's! Any opp that shoves here would welcome a call from pocket 10's, as they have 96% equity and have to put much less than 50% into the pot... a HUGE +EV play for them!

The river brings a 10, but also completes a gutshot straight (which is also well within the opps range due to not 3-betting preflop). Due to this, I would want to make a value bet here and would size it at my standard value bet size of 1/2 pot.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:41 PM
(#4)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Thank you for the great insight there john, and interesting, i never thought to reraise preflop to test the water.

And yes I think my poker terminology off slightly and will try to correct that

DONK bet is that betting into an unknown out of posistion?

or is it im a donk and bet when i should of checked

I did actually think I was blocker betting on the flop, and a c-bet was just to see, regardless wether i bet first or not ,so again something new i think get better get straight.

IM terrible lol thx
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:53 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi holdem!

A donk bet is a lead bet by someone that is out of position and does not have the lead in the hand (was not the preflop raiser).

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 10:36 PM
(#6)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
Hi holdemace

In this spot im probably going to be calling 98% of the time, 3bet getting it in 2% of the time vs aggro spewtards and folding 0% of the time. I would be calling with any pair here so 10 10 is a brucy bonus.

Nice flop for us so I am going to check to the original raiser... it's quite likely he will c-bet so if we do have him beat then we are getting some value from his c-bet and if we are losing then we probably arn't going to be losing a lot of chips.

Check call a standard bet size on the turn and re-evaluate what to do on the river. If I think he had something I would bet the river, if I think he is full of belony I would check to induce bluffs from him.

The mistakes I feel that you made in this hand were donk betting and check min raising the turn. Neither of these actions are giving us much information as he will be calling both bets pretty wide.

I like your bet sizing on the river as it's quite clear the the villain has a minimum of 8x given the action that has taken place ( I put villain on Ax )

Good luck at the tables holdemace
 
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Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:00 AM
(#7)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thx jw and chew me for your thougths and answers
 
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Tue Jul 31, 2012, 02:31 AM
(#8)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post

DONK bet is that betting into an unknown out of posistion?

or is it im a donk and bet when i should of checked
No no, I was not calling you a donk, just using the terminology for that bet type

I think Jwk24 covered it's meaning well.

Sorry if you thought I was insulting you, was not my intention lol
 
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Tue Jul 31, 2012, 10:29 AM
(#9)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
thanks da sens no i did not think that, well maybe a little bit lol but now i know
 

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