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what a terrible day

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what a terrible day - Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:05 AM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
WOW, unbeleivable bad start to the day. I started off ok, then how horrible started to disconnecting in the middle of hands.

Tilt crept in, I did such a terriible call.

first loss

OK, so cleaned out my cookies and temps, checked my connection and started again game 2.

NO, started to disconnect again in the middle of hands, tilt game 2 lost.

Game 3, by this time I was steaming, again started to disconnect, my internet explorer was fine, my connection speed was good, so started to get confused and wondering why it was doing this.

Any way to the 3rd game, I calmed myself down, took a breath and thought great come on lets win this.....

Then this happened....

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=E8779C27F8

OMG how strange that my fold of the trip tens on the flop in a previous post was so badly played.

I played this more or less by the book against a LAG raiser, but guess what it was still a terrible play as I lost.

I think I have sorted out my internet now with a modem reset,

Could do with some words of wisdom as the blood is boiling......
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:30 AM
(#2)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Words of wisdom? Fold pre!

You seem to have tunnel vision here as your focus is only on the LAG raiser. You seem to totally lose track of the fact you have a LAG sb large stack behind you that will call this flat by you because he is getting great odds that you created by spewing 360 chips or 22% of your stack to show weakness and flat.

If you wish to play here it is a jam! Since your flat does not close the action, our play is to defer to folding. If you wish to gamble.... shove it in , high 5 the screen and say eat it b****

Sadly you also think you have played this by the book! Lastly, fix your computer problems before you play any more games! You clearly have this happen over and over and it is continually going to tilt you!

When we make the same mistakes over and over thinking the result will be different we are very foolish!

 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 11:14 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
I agree, a play you suggest is "by the book" is not by any book what so ever (a funny phrase tbh since you have admittedly not read any poker books... if you had been studying the game in any fashion, books/live training/hand analysis/training videos/etc, you would know why flat calling preflop in this situation is really bad). BTW it was nice to see you in Andre's Sunday live trainings yesterday! I hope you start making the live training classes a regular stop.

Cowboy is right, if the situation is good for a resteal then shove, otherwise fold. Flatting on a 13bb stack in this spot is a pretty big leak. I agree with Chris here, fold > ship >>>> call. Post flop play is standard.


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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:36 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Holdem,whatever book you found that in needs to be in your rubbish bin post haste.

This is terrible by you pre-flop. You can never,ever,ever,ever,EVER be calling here. First option would be a fold because you no fold equity against the raiser. He's getting a great price to call you and has you so dominated effective stack size wise that it's pretty much an automatic call for him if you ship. So you have to ask yourself if you want to be going to showdown against at least 1 player with Q10s. If you feel that he IS capable of calling with worse (and he should be calling pretty wide here and his being a LAG by your read means he's capable of this for sure...) and that he's most likely the only action that you'll get in this hand then a shove by you is OK.

Problem is you still have the 2 blinds to act behind you and the SB especially has enough of a stack to try a shove to isolate if they feel they have a hand that plays well against your likely range.

You flop about as well as you can and the shove at this point is 1000% on point. I'm not liking the SB's continuing in the hand too much myself,especially with the big stack still left to act. But there is now way in Hell the big stack is ever folding here,not with all the outs he had in this spot.

The one play you can never be making here is the flat pre-flop. Major leak by you. You're on a ship or fold stack here. No in between.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Mon Jul 30, 2012 at 02:39 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:19 PM
(#5)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Thank you guys for the words of wisdom, it was needed, yes I got to agree i should of folded this hand pre-flop, i had all ready lost chips on a steaming mission.

At least this morning when i wrote this it helped me just to stay off for today why I have my computer probs.

19honu your are right in saying stay off untill im confident I am running glitch free.

THanks dave brill stuff and yes I will definately attend more live sessions, there was lots of fun from Andre with some classic singing lol Andre.

And thanks mox for never ending good advice
And the holdemace book of b.s i think i may chuck in the bin lol

yes i played it terrible guys, tilty not good. thx
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 06:41 PM
(#6)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
Ok. I said I was a fish and now i'll prove it. I want as many callers in the pot as I can get when I play crap or semi crap hands. My reasoning being that if I SPECIFICALLY hit my hand i'll win more money. If I play Q10 sooted or 67 etc. and dont hit the flush or straight I am folding.IMHO top pair weak or medium kicker is a BIG losing hand a lot of the time. Im sure thats wrong in so many ways but I just thought id get my 2 cents worth.

Last edited by FLsnookman; Mon Jul 30, 2012 at 06:47 PM.. Reason: insiration
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:03 PM
(#7)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Snook this is all fine and well of a style in maybe the first 3 levels when the value of your chips is greater. Every chip you hold at any point in time is worth *x* value and all decisions need to be based on 1. reads 2. odds and 3. +/- EV
In the long run that style will not be +EV as the few number of times it works will be far over shadowed by the chips you lose.

 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:47 PM
(#8)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLsnookman View Post
Ok. I said I was a fish and now i'll prove it. I want as many callers in the pot as I can get when I play crap or semi crap hands. My reasoning being that if I SPECIFICALLY hit my hand i'll win more money. If I play Q10 sooted or 67 etc. and dont hit the flush or straight I am folding.IMHO top pair weak or medium kicker is a BIG losing hand a lot of the time. Im sure thats wrong in so many ways but I just thought id get my 2 cents worth.

Not with this stack/blinds ratio snooks.

Our stack here is good for 13.4BB,we simply can't be putting 3BB in the middle to call with speculative hands. That's going to be a huge leak in our game over the long run.

As honu said,when it's earlier in the SNG/MTT it's a different story---we're usually between 45-75BB there (less when it hits level 3 as the jump to 50 for the BB many times knocks us back to more of a re-steal sized stack...). And of course at cash tables a play with a speculative hand like this can be more OK as we're always playing deep there (or should be IMHO...).

One huge reason that we don't want to give away 3BB on a speculative hand here is that we're hurting our fold equity. Look at the effective stack sizes here. We still have good equity against Shawn6000 and M_Manalo1,we especially want that equity against Shawn. If he makes weak plays like limping into unopened pots from the SB to complete against us we want to be able to have enough equity that we can jam a decently sized range back into his face to punish him and make him surrender chips he can't afford to and we need.

Giving away 3BB on a hand that we're going to miss on much more often than not,at this stage of the game,is going to be hugely unprofitable.

When we can afford to miss a couple/few flops here and there then yes,your reasoning on speculative hands and why to play them is spot on for sure. It's a GOOD double edged sword even as,like you said,we either hit the hand big,in which case we can have a very hidden hand and really get a big payoff,or we miss and can easily find our fold button at that point.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Mon Jul 30, 2012 at 07:51 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 08:22 PM
(#9)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
The wisdom is always appreciated Mox and cowboy, THANK YOU.
 
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Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:55 PM
(#10)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
To be honest not readany of this thread but 10000000% agree with the title,

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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