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2NL river a straight

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2NL river a straight - Tue Jul 31, 2012, 04:28 PM
(#1)
animosama's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 63



Villian 30/5/1 40hands

He actually had trips QQ


How could I extract value from this spot ?

I find myself in a lot of river spots where my opponent has a strong hand but I am wondering if I should always shove for most villains can't fold a strong hand on the river.

Last edited by animosama; Tue Jul 31, 2012 at 11:21 PM..
 
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Tue Jul 31, 2012, 07:13 PM
(#2)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
I would probably have bet .45 or .50, hoping he'd re-raise back. Shoving $3.67 into a .47 pot pretty much screams I HAVE THE NUTS.

 
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Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:25 PM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
hi animosama.

the thing I'd question is not your river ship, but rather your failure to C Bet in position. By not doing so, you kept the spot small. when you did that, and the villain bet 8c, you were facing needing at least an 80c return to make chasing a Q pay off (a bit less if you think an A or K would have been good enough). since the pot was only 27c at that point, what was it in the opp's play that made you think you MIGHT get paid to the tune of 80c for flatting the 8c bet?

there ARE villains who might perceive your big ship on the river as a weak attempt at a bluff, but those villains are hardly the type to call that much with a naked J. the river card (a Q) represented a scary card if the opp had turned top pair, so you really didnt have much of a chance to get the pay off you needed to flat 8c.

So rather than wonder if your river bet was good, think about your non C bet and your weak flat to chase...those were certainly not very good ideas in my opinion.

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Wed Aug 01, 2012, 07:23 AM
(#4)
rule110's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 147
hi animosama,

I like a cbet in position, as well. Your opponent didn't show much strength preflop by just calling your utg 3x. Often your cbet will take the hand down right on the flop, which in this case you wouldn't mind, just winning a small pot, because you haven't really flopped well. Aggression wins pots.

In this case your opponent was slowplaying QQ, and had you cbet you would have faced a range of possible reactions on his part. He may have called, folded, or checkraised. Well, I guess his coarse-grained range of reaction would be just call, fold, or checkraise. The point is, what do you do when he checkraises your cbet? He may pick any number to raise to, within a finite range of allowed bets. So he has a fairly wide number of possible choices in the sizing of his checkraise. If you have been observing his play you may have picked up some information on what a checkraise oop means from him. If his bet sizings are inconsistent or situation dependent you may have a read based on the sizing he chooses to use.

He was taking a somewhat unorthodox line in just flatting with QQ in the BB preflop. So it may be reasonable to assume that some highish % of the time he would just check call your cbet on the flop. On the turn he may well trap again, checking to you--and you would likely check back, allowing him to river a set with his slowplayed QQ, and you to river broadway. This line would be far more likely to get you value. This kind of action happens all the time, and instead of you misplaying the turn by calling 8cents, he would be misplaying his overpair by trapping in checking to you on the turn, if he were to checkcall your flop cbet.

As played instead of shipping the river I would have raised to around .94 or so. May look weak to many set and two pair type hands,,,
 

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