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Reads! Explain how you get them!

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Reads! Explain how you get them! - Fri Aug 03, 2012, 07:25 AM
(#1)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
1. Do you multi table and use a HUD?

2. Do you play 1 game at a time and observe?

3. Do you colour code and take notes?

4. If you colour code do these colours change as you observe more?

5. What is a sufficient number of hands to consider your read solid?

6. What is the sufficient number of games and hands to consider your read solid?

Thanks for the discussion

 
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Fri Aug 03, 2012, 10:13 AM
(#2)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Great question there honu, and lots of variables to the answer I could give.

Reads been the biggest part of poker, this is actually the most important aspect in my opinion to the game.


How do we read an opp?,

I find it more to how to read the situation.

I do not use a hud or any software, odds calculaters or anything of any software description.

I personally do not colour label my opps or take effective notes.

I play one game at a time, as you would with live play. This keeps it to a better proportion to live play.

How many hands to get a solid read, depends what you call a solid read.

I sometimes know how a player is playing within a couple of rotations.

Sometimes you do not have a read untill lots of hands have been played.

And one ability to read one opp may differ from the next read on the next opp.

FACTORS TO CONSIDER

ARE the opps tired because of their time zone

Maybe the opp as had a few beers

Maybe the opp as just woke up

So on and so on i could explain all day.

I really do not want to explain in great deal this question honu to be honest, my reads and how i get my reads are the biggest part to my game. ABove though i have give some insight into how I do it personally, and some of you may understand.

Hope this helps and just how I do it, but one extra bit I will add, time served helps with the reading ability.

Last edited by holdemace486; Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 10:15 AM.. Reason: typo
 
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Fri Aug 03, 2012, 10:37 AM
(#3)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,607
1. yes and yes - 6 tables and PT4.

2. No and yes

3.Yes and yes - light blue is passive, green is fishy but dont have good read yet, red is good but don't have read yet, purple is play in home games, Orange is LAG and purple is tag. notes on paper plus pt4 takes notes its self.

4. yes as i get more hands on players i do reevaluate players - the most common change has been TAGs changing to passive.

5. It depends - for the table last 20 - 30 in general over 100

6 - actually the more games the less reliable the read, or at least the less reliable the tracker. those players you (I) come across ever day playing the same level is probably good enough to be actually reading the table and adapting to it. I hope thats what i'm doing..


Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Color coding - Fri Aug 03, 2012, 11:31 AM
(#4)
CHILLI 2 U's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 395
ChromeStar
Absolutely I color code every ones avatar so they look nice and are co ordinated. For instance you have blue in your picture so you have a nice blue frame. I read all the time when I am playing, keeps the boredom away, and yes I can even play more than one table at a time. I dont use any programs as I am computer illiterate. Thanks for lookiing.


2012 Double Bracelet Winner

Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Aug 05, 2012, 03:39 AM
(#5)
opium.nT's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 97
1. 4 tiled tables, no HUD

3. So far notes only

5. Several situations when the opp was involved in a hand. Generally several orbits to see how are they playing depending on the position. A hand that went all the way to showdown gives the best picture, of course as you can see the hole cards.

6. Number of hands/games depends on opp's playing style I guess, maniacs are most easy to notice, rocks are not that hard too, a TAG is much better disguised.
 
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Sun Aug 05, 2012, 10:18 AM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
1. Do you multi table and use a HUD?

2. Do you play 1 game at a time and observe?

3. Do you colour code and take notes?

4. If you colour code do these colours change as you observe more?

5. What is a sufficient number of hands to consider your read solid?

6. What is the sufficient number of games and hands to consider your read solid?

Thanks for the discussion


I'm American, so I'm sure nobody really cares, but I'm putting in my pence.


1 ---- Americans are limited to 3 tables in play chips, but that doesn't mean anything to me since I'm still playing one table at a time. No HUD since I don't have the software. Don't see its praticality since I'm not playing for cheques.

2 ---- One game does give you time to watch. My play is strictly the 27-player SNG games. I'm amused by all the players that "ZZZZ" during a game without knowing anything about their speed. A casino dealer who deals consistently at 30 hands an hour is golden. (Usual casino speed is 27 - 30 hands an hour if manual shuffle. Add three hands if your card room or casino uses an automated shuffler.) A computer screen might not look like much is going on, but the observant will notice the time certain players take. That can lead to a tell, or it could be too many beers.

3 ---- I've got my colors labled for general use, such as one color meaning "any ace = all in." Notes are an ongoing thing. If I have somebody noted as "any ace = all in" from an earlier session, I watch to see if he repeats that action. If he does, I put in an additional note saying "confirmed in X games."

4 ---- Sure color codes change. Sometimes your initial impression is wrong. Why keep the color for "any ace = all in" if the player is just excessively aggressive? I'll change colors if warrented. Player aides are worthless if the player changed styles and you haven't noted it.

5 ---- I think this is a vague question. If you mean for the game you're in, perhaps two or three orbits. To be solid, perhaps three additional tourneys. Haven't run into that yet. Oh I'm seeing the same players in the lineup, but either they never play at my table, or one of us crashes out before meeting. Still, the notes act as an early warning system and is not a firm indicator of the player's tendencies.

6 ---- You have got to clarify. Hedgehog is scratching his head unsure what you mean. If you are referring to our opposition, see Reply 5. If you are asking about a self evaluation, that had better be an ongoing thing. Best you can do is review your data and decide what needs improving. To just say "I have to play more aggressive" is silly if your last game had 50 straight group eight hands. Hard to play those and being aggressive with them might be considered a good case of "going on tilt."






You didn't ask, but I'll offer this as a possible teaching aide. Keep a pencil with you and note which hands gave you pause. Copy them to the replayer and watch. See if you can see where you went wrong, or what you did right. I'm thinking this has to be the biggest advantage to those with the software programs. You can pull those specific hands up and do a more thorough review. Might be the biggest advantage to such software if you intend playing in cheque games.
 
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Sun Aug 05, 2012, 10:57 AM
(#7)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
1. Do you multi table and use a HUD?
2. Do you play 1 game at a time and observe?
3. Do you colour code and take notes?
4. If you colour code do these colours change as you observe more?
5. What is a sufficient number of hands to consider your read solid?
6. What is the sufficient number of games and hands to consider your read solid?
Thanks for the discussion
Very very vague questions

1. Depends on the game (cash, SnG or Mtt's), also depends on the buy-in and no HUD
2. Isn't this the opposite of question 1. As for observing, again it depends, 1-4 table yes, multi only my hands
3. Always
4. Always
5. Depends (cash, SnG or Mtt's)
6. Same as 6.

So................What are your answers?
 
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Mon Aug 06, 2012, 10:02 AM
(#8)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
I'm American, so I'm sure nobody really cares, but I'm putting in my pence.


1 ---- Americans are limited to 3 tables in play chips, but that doesn't mean anything to me since I'm still playing one table at a time. No HUD since I don't have the software. Don't see its praticality since I'm not playing for cheques.

2 ---- One game does give you time to watch. My play is strictly the 27-player SNG games. I'm amused by all the players that "ZZZZ" during a game without knowing anything about their speed. A casino dealer who deals consistently at 30 hands an hour is golden. (Usual casino speed is 27 - 30 hands an hour if manual shuffle. Add three hands if your card room or casino uses an automated shuffler.) A computer screen might not look like much is going on, but the observant will notice the time certain players take. That can lead to a tell, or it could be too many beers.

3 ---- I've got my colors labled for general use, such as one color meaning "any ace = all in." Notes are an ongoing thing. If I have somebody noted as "any ace = all in" from an earlier session, I watch to see if he repeats that action. If he does, I put in an additional note saying "confirmed in X games."

4 ---- Sure color codes change. Sometimes your initial impression is wrong. Why keep the color for "any ace = all in" if the player is just excessively aggressive? I'll change colors if warrented. Player aides are worthless if the player changed styles and you haven't noted it.

5 ---- I think this is a vague question. If you mean for the game you're in, perhaps two or three orbits. To be solid, perhaps three additional tourneys. Haven't run into that yet. Oh I'm seeing the same players in the lineup, but either they never play at my table, or one of us crashes out before meeting. Still, the notes act as an early warning system and is not a firm indicator of the player's tendencies.

6 ---- You have got to clarify. Hedgehog is scratching his head unsure what you mean. If you are referring to our opposition, see Reply 5. If you are asking about a self evaluation, that had better be an ongoing thing. Best you can do is review your data and decide what needs improving. To just say "I have to play more aggressive" is silly if your last game had 50 straight group eight hands. Hard to play those and being aggressive with them might be considered a good case of "going on tilt."






You didn't ask, but I'll offer this as a possible teaching aide. Keep a pencil with you and note which hands gave you pause. Copy them to the replayer and watch. See if you can see where you went wrong, or what you did right. I'm thinking this has to be the biggest advantage to those with the software programs. You can pull those specific hands up and do a more thorough review. Might be the biggest advantage to such software if you intend playing in cheque games.
as always the Hedgehog provides very solid responses! The purpose of this series of questions is to have our members dialogue about all of these important factors. As we know, there are different styles but we have to get the best read we can on our opponents and I was trying to facilitate how you go about doing that.

Question 5 and 6 were meant to be somewhat vague as it is designed to make you think. Also to garner responses as to what is sufficient as I'm guessing there will be many diff opinions.

My thoughts are as follows. Keep in mind this is only sharing what I currently do and am not providing this here as the only way!

1. 4 - 6 tables and always a HUD. ( I play sng and i have a 17" laptop with a game in each quadrant of my screen slightly overlapping so I can see when the table flashes it is my turn to act.) If for no other reason than to have a post game training tool. As many of you know I use PT3 and as I run into a hand that I wish to review later ( as Hedgehog pointed out ) I can simply mark it and review later. But I use the HUD during play because for those spots where I need to take some things into account. For instance most of the time I will play ABC poker, but because I can't possibly be watching all the action on 4 - 6 tables I will from time to time need to pause and think about what I know about a player. The stats that the HUD provide can aide me greatly here. This leads to the next questions.

2. I always use my HUD. No reason not to. But when playing 1 table I am always observing opponents moves! I am also aware if I am mixing things up or am I playing a style that becomes exploitable.

3. As pointed out above, I do colour code 4 colours a basically. Red - TAG , Blue - Tight Passive , Green - LAG , Orange - Loose Pass. I am currently playing the $7 and $3.50 9 mans and these colours are sufficient as there are many players I can exploit by knowing this.

4. My colour codes are changing constantly especially when i have no hands on a player and will tend to stay constant the more hands I have on them. People's styles don't change much IMO as we are creatures of habit. The good players styles do change but at micro level my experience is that they don't.

5 & 6 These two go hand in hand. ( excuse the play on words ) I don't honestly know how many hands is sufficient or games but I would suggest that if you are getting what you think is a solid read on a player and you have seen them less than 200 hands then you don't have much of a read. Consider this..... most online games you can see 60 - 70 hands dealt per hour. Unless you are observing what the opponent showed down you don't truly know what they won with! They could be on a heater and raising alot with good hands or they could be a donkey and raising just becasue they are aggressive. You don't truly know this until you have witnessed alot of show downs.
These show downs do not have to be with you in them and this is why we need to observe as much as we can and take notes as often as we observe these plays!

Re: notes, I take hundreds of them and I find 4 tables allows me time to add them in the PS client directly but when the action gets fast and furious I will have a pad and pen and add then there then add to the notes in the client later. Notes are 100% necessary always. We can maybe discuss what you do for notes later or you can watch Lango's vid on effective note taking.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...ve-Note-Taking

I hope more people will post what you do and how you play because there is alot to be learned from all different styles and methods!


Last edited by 19honu62; Mon Aug 06, 2012 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: added ppints about note taking
 
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Mon Aug 06, 2012, 01:01 PM
(#9)
Deanihilator's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 95
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
1. Do you multi table and use a HUD?

2. Do you play 1 game at a time and observe?

3. Do you colour code and take notes?

4. If you colour code do these colours change as you observe more?

5. What is a sufficient number of hands to consider your read solid?

6. What is the sufficient number of games and hands to consider your read solid?

Thanks for the discussion

That's funny you made this thread.
I'm still learning alot here thanks to great members and trainers.
Yesterday I was thinking about my reads and if they're actually good reads.
I watched Dave's vid on note taking and was very informative.

1. No I'm cheap and consider myself recreational so I don't use HUD or any other software for that matter .Yes , I have started playing two tables as of this month

2. I was playing at one table 2c/5c ring games , but this month I'm playing 2 tables to try and increase my vpp's.Usually I can get 2 tables with most of the same players so I observe both tables as best I can.

3. My note taking is something I need to improve on , but it's getting better and If I make a note they get a color.

4.Yes.I've changed several color codes since I started taking notes.

5. Thats kinda where I struggle sometimes.I'm trying to play more ring games lately and the style of play is quite different so thats something I need to work on.

6. See answer 5

 

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