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Outs Counting

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Outs Counting - Sat Aug 04, 2012, 02:25 PM
(#1)
HaryTradr's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 21
Hi!!Does anyone know why there are 5 outs in the situation middle pair vs higher pair?

I got the idea of 5 outs from http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...nd-Outs?page=4

Thanks a lot.
 
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Sat Aug 04, 2012, 03:01 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hi HaryTradr!

Welcome to the forum. Here's a link that will help to get you familiar with some of the things that PSO has to offer.

The reason for five outs is that you have 2 outs to the pair (the other 2 that match it) and 3 outs to the other card that you are holding (the ones that match it).

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Aug 05, 2012, 03:52 AM
(#3)
opium.nT's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 97
There seems to be some inconsistency in the statements under that odds and outs table.

First, it says "If the pot odds are higher than the odds of you winning, you should call. If the pot odds are lower than your odds of winning, you should fold".

In the example right below we have pot odds of 20% (5:1) and winning chances of 25% (4:1). I'll quote again: "According to the table above, you should therefore call". Surely, but according to what's written under the table, you should actually fold instead.

Or maybe it's me who doesn't get something?
 
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Sun Aug 05, 2012, 09:52 AM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hi opium.nT!

To call, I want my hand equity to be higher than the pot equity.

ex: if the pot equity is 20% and my hand equity is 25%, then on average, I will gain 5% on the chips that I put into the pot by calling.

If the hand equity is 25% but the pot equity is 30%, then on average, I will lose 5% of my chips that I would put into the pot... so I'll fold.

Hope this helps.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Aug 05, 2012, 05:32 PM
(#5)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by opium.nT View Post
There seems to be some inconsistency in the statements under that odds and outs table.

First, it says "If the pot odds are higher than the odds of you winning, you should call. If the pot odds are lower than your odds of winning, you should fold".

In the example right below we have pot odds of 20% (5:1) and winning chances of 25% (4:1). I'll quote again: "According to the table above, you should therefore call". Surely, but according to what's written under the table, you should actually fold instead.

Or maybe it's me who doesn't get something?
I don't know where these percentages came from but they do not match the odds given. 5:1 means for every time you play this situation you win 1 and lose 5 so your winning percentage is 17% not 20%. Likewise with 4:1 you win 1 out of 5 so the win % is 20% not 25%.

Odds are expressed as way to win : ways to lose.

Percentages are ways to win / total outcomes

And remember: Good Decisions!.
 
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Sun Aug 05, 2012, 07:31 PM
(#6)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Hi,

It does get confusing when two representations are used the ratio and percentage methods.

I stick with the ratio method and then words like higher or greater also adds to the confusion.

But to put it simply your card odds say the number of outs for a flush draw (9) is a 4:1 dog. So you want the same or better pot odds to make the call.

So if the villain bets 20 into a 80 pot, total 100. You will have to call 20 to improve you hand. Do you have the pot odds? Yes 100 / 20 = 5:1

Your getting 5:1 on your money on a 4:1 dog. So better odds.

Last edited by ForrestFive; Sun Aug 05, 2012 at 07:34 PM.. Reason: 9 outs
 
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Mon Aug 06, 2012, 04:34 AM
(#7)
opium.nT's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 97
Thank you for the feedback, guys, now everything is clear
 

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