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Confused about odds and outs table

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Confused about odds and outs table - Tue Aug 07, 2012, 11:17 PM
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klfay1's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
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This is in the page on outs and odds:

Example of pot odds with a straight draw:
You have a gutshot straight draw (four outs) on the flop and there is $25 in the pot. Your opponent bets $5. There is now $30 in the pot ($25 + $5), and it's $5 to call. Your pot odds are therefore 6:1. However, according to the table the odds of winning the hand are 10:1. You don't have the right pot odds and should therefore fold.

But if this bet comes on the flop, don't I use the column ""Odds flop to river"? Since I get to potentially see two more cards and my odds of making the hand are 5:1 with pot odds of 6:1, shouldn't I call?
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 01:04 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi klfay1!

Welcome to the forum. Here's a link that will help to get you familiar with some of the things that PSO has to offer.

When looking at pot odds, etc., I try to use pot equity vs hand equity as it's easier for me to calculate. Here's how I'd look at that hand.

With $25 in the pot and $5 bet by my opponent, if I call, I need to put $5 into a pot that will be $35. 5/35 = 14.3%.
With a gutshot straight draw, I have 4 outs. My hand will have an equity % for draws that will be 2% per out, per street.
If I only get to see the turn (1 street), then my hand equity is 4 outs * 2% per out or 8%. Since my hand equity (8%) is lower than the pot equity (14.3%), I should fold.
However, if I get to see both cards (2 streets, turn and river), then my hand equity is 4*2%*2% or 16%. In this situation, since my hand equity (16%) is higher than the pot equity (14.3%), this makes it a call.

The one thing you have to watch with this is that you are not necessarily guaranteed to see both streets if you or the opp is not all-in, so you can only use 1 street of hand equity if both players still have chips.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 09:16 AM
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mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by klfay1 View Post

But if this bet comes on the flop, don't I use the column ""Odds flop to river"? Since I get to potentially see two more cards and my odds of making the hand are 5:1 with pot odds of 6:1, shouldn't I call?
this would only be true if there was no more money left behind (to bet) if that 5$ bet put the villain all in then yes you would use that table. but if he bets even 5$ more on the turn if you've missed, your drawing odds just got shot out the window. Hope that helps


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 09:17 AM
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19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Just to add here that you are not also guaranteed that the 4 outs you need are all live! What I mean is that you may have an out that makes your opponents hand and therefor is actually not an out for you.
Since we don't know what the flop is or what read you have on your opponent this is hard to tell. Just pointing it out as this would then drop your odds even lower. You also may be missing the fact that you may already be good here or have good showdown value. You say you have a gut shot but without posting a specific hand you may have him drawing to a str8 as well but you have the top of it...... or he may have a smaller pr than you!

Lots of scenarios. There is a hand analysis thread if you would like to post specific hands there are many people that would be happy to offer their opinions.

C
 

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