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OK! - Wed Aug 08, 2012, 10:18 AM
(#1)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hey all, I suppose this post is just a post. It as not got any particular meaning to it, just me feeling a bit nostalgic.

I surprised no one noticed I did not in fact fold the nuts as my title suggested, I only folded the best possible flopped hand, think about that one for a while.....

If you want to win on internet poker, think abit beyond the faceless circles that you play against.

Think about keeping it in proportion to live play, playing one game at a time.

The benefits in playing one game at a time are greater than you think!

BR <bank roll> will last a considerable lot longer than multitabling.

Lasting longer, helps variance to swing back to your direction.

One table, you will get a far better read of the situation.

GO IN THE OPTION ON YOUR CLIENT AND SET THE HYPNOTIC FLASHING CIRCLES TO HIGHLIGHT ACTIVE PLAYER INSTEAD, IN TABLE DISPLAY OPTIONS

Beleive me its the little things that help

 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 11:26 AM
(#2)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,607
[QUOTE=holdemace486;360429The benefits in playing one game at a time are greater than you think!

BR <bank roll> will last a considerable lot longer than multitabling.

.....Beleive me its the little things that help

[/QUOTE]


This is only true if you are losing. If you are winning you will build a bankroll faster.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 11:47 AM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi holdemace!

I totally disagree on the variance part.
As long as playing multiple tables does not change the way that you are playing, then playing more tables will LOWER your variance, as you will be able to see more hands. The more hands that you see, the lower the variance will be.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 11:51 AM
(#4)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Foldin the FLOPPED nuts is still folding the nuts... NOBODY EVER said that the flopped nuts was always going to hold... But common, folding there was atrocious. He was AT BEST drawin at a 2pr.+flush if memory serves. I know it's human nature to defend our point of veiw, but common now. Accept the error and move on... Jus sayin'...


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 11:57 AM
(#5)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Interesting,.. B when you are loosing though you loose more by multitabling is that not true?

And JW I understand what you are saying to be true probably, you know a lot more than me.

But i think that playing less for example, helps avoid variance

e.g i play today and play 2 sngs one at a time, thats my daily hrs used up providing i do well in these tourneys.

total cost 50c

So ok today variance favours me

Tommorrow same situation, and again variance favours me.

SO then to the 3rd day, I decide to miss, gamblers fallocy maybe but 3 good days in a row?

Nothing says that variance could not favour me again for that 3rd day,

but thats how i see it

IF variance ran as a line of infinity with swings of spikes below and above, but you could drop on and play only on them above spikes, then in fact you could always be favoured by variance.

Just my thoughts Jw, not sure if thers any actauracy to that statement but thats how i view variance.
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 12:00 PM
(#6)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
Foldin the FLOPPED nuts is still folding the nuts... NOBODY EVER said that the flopped nuts was always going to hold... But common, folding there was atrocious. He was AT BEST drawin at a 2pr.+flush if memory serves. I know it's human nature to defend our point of veiw, but common now. Accept the error and move on... Jus sayin'...
hi mt, i did except my error in the other post, this is just to get people to see that the flopped nuts is not the absolute nuts.
And misguided perception that all in is unbeatable on these occasions.
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 12:46 PM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
GO IN THE OPTION ON YOUR CLIENT AND SET THE HYPNOTIC FLASHING CIRCLES TO HIGHLIGHT ACTIVE PLAYER INSTEAD, IN TABLE DISPLAY OPTIONS

haha - that doesn't sound very enticing!! lol




 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 12:56 PM
(#8)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
lol sam, yes that flashing is annoying and can be turned off in options, i feel sorry for people with epilepsy lol
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 01:57 PM
(#9)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
lol sam, yes that flashing is annoying and can be turned off in options, i feel sorry for people with epilepsy lol
Ahhhhh, come on......loooooook into my eye...I seeee your sooooul....lol


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 03:25 PM
(#10)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
hi mt, i did except my error in the other post, this is just to get people to see that the flopped nuts is not the absolute nuts.
And misguided perception that all in is unbeatable on these occasions.


So what are you trying to get them to see with that reasoning? That you were somewhere,somehow CORRECT in making that fold?

The best possible hand at any given time IS the nuts.

You can spin this or rationalize it any way you want about it not being the absolute nuts (you only wait around for the absolute nuts before you make a strong move then?...good to know...) but one simple FACT remains unchanged---that fold was atrocious. Own it. Deal with it. Learn from it. STOP trying to defend it.

No one ever said that the hand in question was unbeatable. We DID say that it was a poor decision and you proceeded to try and defend it for three pages,even going so far to try some convoluted nonsense that "money is just not that big a deal to me. I would rather help people so I have a hard time taking money off of them." I know I'm paraphrasing there,but I just can't type it back in "holdem-speak". Sorry.

I was going to avoid asking this question in an open forum but since you decided to broach the topic of that fold AGAIN then that point about you and your seeming lack of a killer attitude in taking people's money on a poker table has become stuck in my craw again so I'm going to ask...

Holdem,you say you want to have a poker club to teach people the "proper" way to play. Forget everything else that you have displayed in this forum that screams out how bad an idea that is and let's focus on one thing...

Do you really think that it's fair for someone who openly admits in this forum that they have a hard time separating players from their money and that this failing affects their decisions at the table to be teaching poker to players who ARE trying to do that very thing?


As for the premise of your thread here---that depends on the player. Maybe YOU aren't capable of playing more than 1 or 2 tables at a time but that doesn't mean that others have the same restriction.

If one is already a losing player then yes,they should improve their game on one table and only after building success over a large sample size try opening a second. Then only after success over a large sample size open a third. And so on. Rinse and repeat.

And for successful players if they reach a saturation point on the number of tables where they are seeing a decline in overall profitability then they are probably playing too many tables (I would be careful making that assumption if it's only for a low number of games,but if it FEELS like you're playing too many then you're instincts are probably correct...).

Telling players who are successful to play LESS poker is just plain goofy. But yes,players who are unsuccessful should limit their tables. What they should really be doing above all is devoting more time to study and learning.

I can tell you one thing I've never,NOT ONCE,taken into consideration when I decide to sit down and play and pick what I'm going to play,how many tables and everything else...I never have considered how this may affect my variance. I DO focus on MY play. Variance is random holdem and it doesn't care if you're playing 1 table or 5. Or 10. Or 50.

JW is right about one thing however---if you play more hands and games you can "flatten" out variance for the simple fact that volume is the great equalizer.It's not so much that variance will be less per se,it's that variance will have less and less effect within larger sample sizes. As I said above,variance doesn't CARE how many tables you're playing,it will still exist. But as with most other things in poker volume can and will correct and distill variances effects. In the short sample variance is more of a factor,the larger the sample becomes the less the effect.

And you are still on concepts like "if I win 2 days and avoid variance then playing a 3rd day in a row is tempting fate" or some such nonsense?

Sigh,you do NOT understand variance. It's RANDOM. Period. That's why it's called variance for the sake of Pete. Variance doesn't know or care that your last 2 AA hands held,the next time you get AA your odds versus the hand(s) you're against in THAT hand are exactly the norm because that hand exists in the vacuum of THAT hand. Same as booking 2 winning sessions in a row. Whether you do or don't hit variance,good or bad,in that third session is NOT informed by the previous two.

If you really believe things like this why don't you just consult a Magic 8-ball or Ouija board for all your decisions on the tables? It would make as much sense.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 03:28 PM..
 
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Wed Aug 08, 2012, 03:35 PM
(#11)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
..... Does that mean I should stop using my 8ball? Oh dear.....


May the tinfoil protect you. MT

Last edited by JWK24; Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 04:13 PM.. Reason: deleted 4-letter word - JWK24
 
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Thu Aug 09, 2012, 07:19 AM
(#12)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Why can't anyone spell the word 'lose' properly?
 
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Thu Aug 09, 2012, 09:05 AM
(#13)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
Why can't anyone spell the word 'lose' properly?
Now, now... to be fair, holdem ain't just anybody..


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Thu Aug 09, 2012, 09:40 AM
(#14)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
Hey all, I suppose this post is just a post. It as not got any particular meaning to it, just me feeling a bit nostalgic.

#1
I surprised no one noticed I did not in fact fold the nuts as my title suggested, I only folded the best possible flopped hand, think about that one for a while.....

#2
If you want to win on internet poker, think abit beyond the faceless circles that you play against.

#3
Think about keeping it in proportion to live play, playing one game at a time.

#4
The benefits in playing one game at a time are greater than you think!

#5
BR <bank roll> will last a considerable lot longer than multitabling.

#6
Lasting longer, helps variance to swing back to your direction.

#7
One table, you will get a far better read of the situation.

#8
GO IN THE OPTION ON YOUR CLIENT AND SET THE HYPNOTIC FLASHING CIRCLES TO HIGHLIGHT ACTIVE PLAYER INSTEAD, IN TABLE DISPLAY OPTIONS

Beleive me its the little things that help




First off, I'm American. For online poker, that means ignore because he's full of (censor). That said, I still have to address a few of the points your raised. I numbered your quote for ease of reference.





1 ---- I can remember folding pocket aces. The story can be found in the thread about my group one and two hands. Yes, sometimes what you think are nuts turns into a second placer. Remember, nothing is certain until the river.

2 ---- You do indeed have to remember there are real people behind those circles. There's a current thread in the education section about reads. You have to play the person behind the cute puppy, the dog doesn't play.

3 ---- Most I can play is three games, but I stick with one. In chip play, I enjoy gabbing. Poker is a social event for me. When I did cheque play, I did dabble into two or three tables. I found it easy since the cash players refused to talk. At least they did at the tables where I played.

MUlti table play is a skill. It takes time to develope. Since I'm here for fun only, I've let that pass. If Americans ever get back to the online scene, that is the first thing I'm working on.

4 ---- Yes, one table has some advantages. I can concentrate on the reads and watch the action when I'm out of a hand. But like a kid who rides a bike, eventually the training wheels have to come off. If you master one table, you can take it to two. Get comfortable there, and press on is the key. (This from somebody stuck at one table)

5 ---- Bank roll should be a function of the tables played. As an example, assume proper bankroll for a 5¢/10¢ table is $5. To play at two tables, you need $10. Obviously, if you're on a losing streak, playing muliple tables will compound your losses. However, the reverse is also true. You want to ride those hot times.

6 ---- Here I'll both agree and disagree. One table will give you more time to beat varience. Can tell you there are days when I cannot get anything higher than group 6. Then the next day, I'm hitting inside straights every time. No accounting for the RNG. The thing is, bad varience can lead to frustration, and that leads to tilt. Perhaps the distraction of a second table can negate such emotions.

7 ---- Your read of a situation is not related to one table. If you are a poor player, one table will not be your salvation. It's a step in the right direction, but it is not the cure. Like I said in 4, you can concentrate more on the action if it is a single table. But online poker almost demands multiple tables if you intend to be successful on a consistent basis.

8 ---- I'm a firm believer in finding out what works for you. The site offers lots of viewing options. If you find one is more user friendly to you, then that's the one to incorporate. I always found the themes too cluttered for me. I love the simplified nova theme, and for the same reason you mentioned. Its less of a distraction, and anything that distracts from the game has to be detrimental.
 
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Thu Aug 09, 2012, 08:32 PM
(#15)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
I played against Holdemace the other night and he was very cool about chat etc. As someone who has had many,many issues with temper,tilt whatever allow me to say this. This player showed none of that while playing with me. I just want to say that I truly believe that most people disagreeing with you here Holdem are doing so because they do not want new players thinking you are correct. I am a fish but your thoughts on variance are wrong. That's why it's so HIGH on smaller tournies. But that's not what i'm saying here. I believe you should play how ya play and derive either a good paycheck or much enjoyment out of the game. That said you should also strive to not lead others astray. This does not mean I feel you are wrong in playing how you do. While I may not agree with your methods I say good luck to you sir and all the rest of us who strive to improve. Just try not to sound so.... sure all the time. Good luck and see you out there.
 
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Thu Aug 09, 2012, 09:50 PM
(#16)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Thx for the kind words FLsnookman, I do try to put in most of my posts that my posts are not fact, but it always seems to come out wrong no matter which way I word it.

I completely understand variance, although people think I do not.

However, although commonly agreed that variance can not be beat, I see that , as man will never walk on the moon.

So perhaps some of you are right and I do need my tin foil hat, and we can give one out to einstein and all the other tin foil hat wearers.

I search for something different,


Perhaps in a lecture hall with some illistrations I could explain more of my theories better.

Theories guys/girls as most of mine are.

Moxie and cairn some great reading there and all beginners will be gratefull to read any of your stuff as with myself thx.
 

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