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Is this an okay play to do on a rare occasion?

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Is this an okay play to do on a rare occasion? - Sun Aug 12, 2012, 06:51 AM
(#1)
behappy621's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 181
Hi,

I played this hand completely out of my usual style, i never ever shove it all for 100bbs.
Pabs 26/12/3.8 for 100hands (VPIP/PFR/ agg factor).
I actually put him on the exact hand QQ.
For the turn i actually improved, I cannot check there as i am concerned about stack sizes and getting the money in when i hit, when he shoves, this is such a gross spot.
I had 9 outs for the flush(8 if his Q is spades) + 3 (tens) + 3 (kings) [i know he would never play AA or KK this way from the previous way he played his Aces and Kings)
= about 15 or 14 outs.

[IMG][/IMG]

Pokerstove says on turn I have 32% vs his 68% [ 1 : 2.125 ]
Pot odds on turn 1 : 1.59

Please correct my math if im wrong

I know by the math, this is a clear cut fold, BUT

as a poker player I feel that sometimes you should take a gamble, In that spot I felt it coming, and i wasn't distraught after the hand or anything.
To make it clear, This was a complete one off call i have EVER done since playing 10nl or even 5nl, so last 42k hands i have never done anything like this

Just want to know your thoughts on this and on the mental side in the long run of this play if 'one' makes this calls once every blue moon.
 
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Sun Aug 12, 2012, 07:22 AM
(#2)
magiciantom's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 61
I think I 'd raise the flop there because the biggest part of his range will be overcards that missed and you can easily represent a set on that board. You call, which isn't bad either. Once your opponent checks to you, I might check back the turn because you now have showdown value and you're not gonna get called by much worse (unless he has 99 or 89). If he has overcards and the river is a blank he might take another stab at it. There are only 9 cards you don't want to see (A, Q, J no spade). You bet and he c/r you. It is very unlikely you have the best hand here, and he could easily have a set, reducing your number of outs to 8. I'd definitely fold here. It's good to sometimes mix up your play, but not by making -EV calls.
 
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Sun Aug 12, 2012, 08:30 AM
(#3)
behappy621's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 181
I totally agree, i thought i deserved to make one -ev call in 42k hands lol.
Dammit, shoulda checked the turn behind.
Thanks for the feedback
 
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Sun Aug 12, 2012, 11:54 AM
(#4)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey Bee Happy

I think the biggest lesson for you here is to decide to check back the turn. Think of a hand in your opponent's range like KJ, KQ, or AK. If we check back we give these hands a chance to make a pair, which will give us two pair. If we check back we also give these hands, as well as AJ/AQ a chance to make a pair... that might make us a flush .

So we don't really need to worry about free cards coming off too much. Between spades being a false out for our opponent and a king being a false out for them, we're pretty safe.

Similarly when we are behind an overpair like JJ-AA we give ourselves a free shot at 14 potential cards to improve us to the best hand.

Finally hands like pairs under a ten we are probably only going to get one bet out of anyways, most of the time at least.

So checking back:

- let's his overcard hands back into a 2nd best hand
- gives us a chance to draw out on his strong hands
- doesn't cost us too much against his weaker hands
- doesn't worry us too much in terms of protecting our hand. With a strong flush draw we would like to see the river and then make decision for stacks.

Hope this helps!

Gareth
 
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Sun Aug 12, 2012, 05:48 PM
(#5)
behappy621's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 181
thx Gareth

sometimes its good to hear things again that i forget like, we get to draw out cheaper by checking behind,
definitely a concept i did not think of then, and was too worried about getting the Monies in.
 

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