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5NL Zoom

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5NL Zoom - Sun Aug 12, 2012, 12:57 PM
(#1)
animosama's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 63


I didn't 4bet because he would end up making the correct decision by folding worse and continuing with KK n AA and most people in zoom don't call 4bets with weak hands.

Was I just unlucky ?
 
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Sun Aug 12, 2012, 07:56 PM
(#2)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
You were certainly unlucky in that your opponent outflopped you. However I think the turn is a very tough spot. There are many hands that beat us and I don't know how many hands he would be betting on the turn that are either worse made hands or draws. This is a spot where I would like to know how aggressive our villain is. It might be a good spot to make a raise or fold decision on the turn, particularly if we do not expect him to fire the river with bluffs and we expect him to bet/call all-in with AJ/QQ/KK type hands.

That being said this is one of the worst flops for us in this situation. You will have a lot of stronger hands in your range when you open the button and call a 3bet. Hands like KQ which look pretty good on this board. You will also sometimes have JJ/TT/99/JT/T9s. So in a way your AA is one of the weaker hands you can make it with to the turn in this kind of situation and then folding it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Well it wouldn't be a happy time either . It is hard not to be coloured by results here.

I think also your statement about 4betting is interesting. How big were you planning on 4betting when you thought they would fold a lot? I think making it 0.90 would be a good size. Very tempting for our opponent to call! You might be making your four-bets too big in position in situations like this. If we make it 0.90 and he either calls or raises there is going to be a big pot and it will be easy to get all-in in the future.

Gareth
 
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Sun Aug 12, 2012, 09:08 PM
(#3)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Great analysis.

I was going to put my 2 cents in about a 4b and what range would 3b... flop cringe... turn fold.


Got more to think about now.
 
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Sun Aug 12, 2012, 09:35 PM
(#4)
animosama's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
You were certainly unlucky in that your opponent outflopped you. However I think the turn is a very tough spot. There are many hands that beat us and I don't know how many hands he would be betting on the turn that are either worse made hands or draws. This is a spot where I would like to know how aggressive our villain is. It might be a good spot to make a raise or fold decision on the turn, particularly if we do not expect him to fire the river with bluffs and we expect him to bet/call all-in with AJ/QQ/KK type hands.

That being said this is one of the worst flops for us in this situation. You will have a lot of stronger hands in your range when you open the button and call a 3bet. Hands like KQ which look pretty good on this board. You will also sometimes have JJ/TT/99/JT/T9s. So in a way your AA is one of the weaker hands you can make it with to the turn in this kind of situation and then folding it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Well it wouldn't be a happy time either . It is hard not to be coloured by results here.

I think also your statement about 4betting is interesting. How big were you planning on 4betting when you thought they would fold a lot? I think making it 0.90 would be a good size. Very tempting for our opponent to call! You might be making your four-bets too big in position in situations like this. If we make it 0.90 and he either calls or raises there is going to be a big pot and it will be easy to get all-in in the future.

Gareth

The thing is once I 4 bet he is going to know if it is AA or KK for it is kinda the norm at 5NL and if I continue to take this line by 4 betting betting he will always play the hand correctly against me and I want to avoid situations like that for it is less EV. SO if I start 4 betting I will have to put in AKs,KQs,QQ,JJ combos in it and some bluffs for he to think about calling my 4 bet,which will be kinda hard to play against his call 3 bet range but it is the price I have to pay for him to start calling my 4 bets.

Same thing if you 3 bet oop vs early positions it can rarely be a bluff for to 3 bet a early position
range you have to have monster hands since early position ranges consist of monsters n some pockets n AK,AQ which won't continue against your 3 bet.

So I will try your 2.2 size 4 bet to see if it works but I think shortening his range with a 4bet is less ev
in my opinion.

And my Journey for playing against 3bets continue....
 
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Wed Aug 15, 2012, 01:33 PM
(#5)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Dont be too worried he is always going to fold TT-QQ or AQ/AK to your 4 bets. I reckon he won't too often.

In NLHE we have to put our opponents in a position to make a mistake against our hand and/or our range. If we never 4-bet AA preflop here we don't give him the opportunity to continue with hands he should not. We don't give him the chance to make a mistake --- we let him off the hook!

So work on four betting smaller and let your opponents
 

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