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2 NL ZOOM flatting 4-bet with AA in position

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2 NL ZOOM flatting 4-bet with AA in position - Wed Aug 15, 2012, 05:10 AM
(#1)
wwictor's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 19


Only played 3 hands with opp before.
Minraise was quick, after that he took 10-12 seconds then 4-bet me. Put him on KK (~50%), QQ(~30%), trash (~20%).
Usually I jam here but heads up in position considered calling to be more profitable. With SPR 1 all-in on the flop is inevitable (90%) anyway, so I didn't want him to lay down trash+queens.

Is push better or is it opponent-dependent? If yes then how?

If I had KK or QQ and played as he did, could I fold to the push from unknown?
 
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Wed Aug 15, 2012, 11:36 AM
(#2)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Imho, knowing calling his 4bet would set up an spr of 1 anyway (and this being 2nl and opp probably doesn't have clue what spr even is) I probably would have tried to get the money in pre.
I doubt he's ever folding QQ or KK to a preflop shove after 4 betting, I would think with him being oop he would 4 bet any hand he wants to play so as to at least gain initiative, but would almost assuredly concider himself stuck if 5bet. It also doesn't allow an A high flop to kill your action against those holdings.
some opps will even call it off w/ AK,AQ, or JJ at this level (i've seen AJo, 1010 even as low as 66 stack off pre at this level and higher tbh.)
I don't mind flatting here either, but would def. Be trying to get the money in on vurtually any flop if/ when he continuation bets. You've invested 1/3 of your stack here pre so are basically committing yourself anyway. You def dont want to be putting that much of your stack in and folding very often for sure.
I do think it's opp dependant but w/ 3 hands of history, this guy is just an unknown. I think flatting would be a good choice if your opp was the loose aggressive type or just a 2nl spewtard, so as to not let hin off the hook with his trash, But against the range you provide here I think getting it in pre is probably best.


May the tinfoil protect you. MT

Last edited by mtnestegg; Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:40 AM..
 
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Wed Aug 15, 2012, 03:41 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi ww,

I think the key here is your ranging... I think you're giving the guy too many bluffs personally. He's raise/4-betting from UTG vs. an UTG+1 3-bet, I think his range is pretty strong here. With no reads I wouldn't even expect him to be open raising with bluffs 20% of the time, much less 4-bet them vs. your reraise. Also think it's important to include AK in his range, as well as some combos of JJ and TT.

*IF* the villain was a known light 4-bettor, then I don't mind flatting for the reasons you stated. But in general and in this spot in particular, I think it's much better to raise again for several reasons:

1) I think he has mostly strong value hands in his range at this point, and AA coolers all of them.
2) After he's put in over 25% of his stack I don't think he's likely to fold any strong value hands.
3) Like mtn said, a scary flop can kill your action, most notably if you hit an ace.

You also have another option besides call or jam, you can click it back if you are worried that the opponent might 4b/fold QQ or JJ to a jam (I'm not too worried about that). If you click it back (min-raise another .36c) I don't see how the villain is getting away from QQ or JJ. Even if they don't go all in pre, they will likely feel compelled to at least call, then the pot will be $1.80 there will only be .70c left to bet.

Dave


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Wed Aug 15, 2012, 03:48 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
I don't mind flatting here either, but would def. Be trying to get the money in on vurtually any flop if/ when he continuation bets. You've invested 1/3 of your stack here pre so are basically committing yourself anyway. You def dont want to be putting that much of your stack in and folding very often for sure
Good point to make, if you flat this with an SPR less than 1 we should be getting our AA in on all flops actually, if he out flops us then nh sir.

If we think he has a lot of bluffs in his range this line is perfectly fine, and with this low an spr no board is too scary, even KQJ monotone, since he will have enough AK's and TT's + bluffs to make calling his flop shove fine. Without reads though as is the case here, I would never assume he's got a bunch of bluffs with this action sequence, I would tend to assume he has no bluffs in his preflop raise/4b UTG range vs. an UTG+1 3b actually, until I know different.


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Thu Aug 16, 2012, 09:42 AM
(#5)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
I actually meant to edit that and just didn't gett back on to do it. When I said you don't want to be putting that much of your stack in and folding very often for sure, I meant to add AND NEVER EVER WITH AN SPR OF 1. Just to clarify my point. and I totally agree that the op's putting far too many (%wise) rag hands in the ep raisers range ESPECIALLY when he repops his 3bet, and just being a random.


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 

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