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10NL huge raise by limper

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10NL huge raise by limper - Tue Aug 21, 2012, 09:15 AM
(#1)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Hey all, it's my 1st hand on this table, no reads on villain.



I guess I'm too used to facing flop minraise or a 3x raise. For this case, villain raised me slightly more than 4x.

Since he's a limper, should we factor in possibilities he holds TT or 33 or JT (assuming he would raise with JJ)? But it really seems that he wants to get stacks in on the flop and that he's holding TPGK (KJ) or on a straight draw (98 or KQ), because of the bet sizing.

1) With no reads, should we fold to his huge raise?

2) IF he raised me smaller, like minraise or 3x raise, should we still call? [Hypothetical qn]
 
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Tue Aug 21, 2012, 10:13 AM
(#2)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Hi,

I'm with you on this, fold. You can put the limper on a small pp. Now a limp at 10NL

but hang on is that indicative of a weaker player? So in the villain's seat how would we get value from worse? A huge raise probably not but from this player this may have given away strength.

More difficult decision for a smaller raise to inflate the pot. I'll sit on the wall for that one.
 
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Big flop raise - Tue Aug 21, 2012, 02:07 PM
(#3)
king_spadez1's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAwesomeNW View Post
Hey all, it's my 1st hand on this table, no reads on villain.

I guess I'm too used to facing flop minraise or a 3x raise. For this case, villain raised me slightly more than 4x.

Since he's a limper, should we factor in possibilities he holds TT or 33 or JT (assuming he would raise with JJ)? But it really seems that he wants to get stacks in on the flop and that he's holding TPGK (KJ) or on a straight draw (98 or KQ), because of the bet sizing.

1) With no reads, should we fold to his huge raise?

2) IF he raised me smaller, like minraise or 3x raise, should we still call? [Hypothetical qn]
To start off, I'm mainly a STT player, but have played, and studied cash games a bit.

You are playing with no reads, vs. a very aggressive (post-flop) player, that doesn't 'top off'. My initial felling is that the villain is going to be a weaker than normal player. I don't expect him to be making any advanced moves. An advanced move in this scenario would be semi-bluffing a KQ. However weaker aggressive (post-flop) players, make moves like this with AJ (weaker players might limp this), and KJ. Other weaker passive players may even limp/call PF with hands as strong as JJ, and TT (less likely, but possible). I think it is very unlikely the villain limp/called QQ+, even though I have seen players take this line (especially IP). The most common hand following this line is JT; less common hands would be J3s, and T3s. Most of the aforementioned hands have decreased combinations, due to your holdings, and the board layout. Even though there are many combinations you will be ahead of, will the villain be taking this line with them?

It seems inevitable, that the money is going AI on the turn. Your biggest question is should you make a small mistake by folding possibly the best hand, or make a big mistake by calling with possibly 2nd best hand without many outs? You have only invested 17BB thus far, do you want to risk a total of 100BB with an over pair? Without reads, it's time to fold, make a note, and continue to follow his betting trends.

Facing a smaller raise, I would call, and re-evaluate on the turn. Timing tells, may help your decision as well, bluffs are usually going to be snappier bets.


"May the cards be with you!"
 
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Tue Aug 21, 2012, 09:23 PM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Hi Awesome.

Given that you have no info the SPR going to the flop is right on the boarderline of a move to stand (putting villain all in) or a fold. $1.55 in pre, with a bit over $8 in the raiser's stack puts you a bit over SPR of 5 vs him (when the slightly smaller stack folds ahead of your decision).

If the pre flop pot were a tad smaller (thus the SPR higher), then a single pair holding is not a great a hand to stand on here. If the pot were a bit bigger pre flop, then it would have been quite possible the villain had a hand (like top pair/good kicker) that you could beat, and a stand might be in order. But an SPR of 5 is kinda yuck...

Personally, I am inclined to call here myself, but then I prefer a higher level of variance in my game play. I feel making what MIGHT be a loose call early on at the table can result in more rash moves by opponent's later, so even if I am "wrong" in this boarderline situation, I can derive some benefit.

You may not wish to have that level of swingness in your game, nor rely on projecting a false image, so you might elect to release to a raise that may well have you beat because you have little info. So in short, I think the choice is really a matte rof your personal preference here as played...

BUT...

One thing you can potentially recognize for the future:

KK is the sort of hand you do not want to leave yourself in a tricky spot.

With your raise from the BB to 50c to go over 2 x limpers, you may well have been able to raise to more like 75c and avoid the ticky spot had both of the opp's called. In that case your SPR going to the flop would have been under 4, and a committment decision on an over pair would have been far clearer.

Part of your betting decisions is anticpating potential reactions by your opp's and configuring your actions NOW to simplify your future decisions. I am not saying you "must" raise to 75c, but a slightly LARGER raise in this spot may well have had near as good a chanc eof being called, and may have changed a sticky spot into one much clearer.

Hope it helps.

-JDean


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:49 AM
(#5)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Thanks everyone for your input!

@ForrestFive: Had the same thoughts as you, put him on a small pp which flopped a set, hence a big raise

@king_spadez1: Like your point about villain not being an advanced player, thus not making advanced moves like semi-bluff. Not worth investing 100bb with only an overpair which can easily be beaten.

@JDean: I totally forgot about SPR which would determine whether to commit or not lol. Raising bigger preflop would have solved this issue. Extract more value, make them pay more as I'm playing the blinds, and easier commitment decision!
 

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