Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions /

Need help in sorting out confusion

Old
Question
Need help in sorting out confusion - Wed Sep 05, 2012, 11:37 PM
(#1)
Taunto_88's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 57
My games have been going up and down as for win %. I find playing in cash tournaments is the best bang for your buck. Even the $1-$3 buy in games, since you can easily loose that much at one normal table. this way if i loose out of the tourny i only loose that couple bucks and also have a chance of winning $500+. My best win that i was pretty happy about was last friday night played in a full ring table $2 buy in. and placed 36th over 900+ players.

Maybe my problem with the game is i have been reading to much info on sites and re-reading through courses and getting to much info at once. I have a hard time sorting out Pot odds and EV. Calculating my equity. I have some things memorized if its even right. Based on the flop if needing 1 card to make a straight i have 4 outs which mkes it a 11:1 odds correct? 9 outs on a flush making it 4:1 odds correct?

Now one of the sites i found with loads of articles to read from has been really helpful but heres the mest up part. Readint through calculating ptt odds it first states Remember! You should only call if the pot odds are greater than the "card odds" (odds of completing your draw. But then a little ways further down it states Remember! You should only call if the percentage chance of making your hand is greater than the percentage of the pot you have to call.

Isnt this just canceling each rule out? Also any tips on playing cash games, and if my idea of playing tournaments is the best bet or should i be looking into the pennie tables to build experience. I do play with the play money to build experience, but it seems like its a totally different playing field in the play money compared to cash games.
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 06, 2012, 03:38 AM
(#2)
delgato2069's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4
BronzeStar
Don't count on using play money tables to build your experience. While it would be good practice for calculating pot odds and ev, there are just to many maniacs on the play money tables. If you want to get experience in mtts try the play money 80k 27 seat tourneys. They seem to be fairly close to real money play, especially after the first two levels.
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 06, 2012, 11:52 AM
(#3)
Garrns's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 44
Congratulations on your placement. Now let's have a look at your questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunto_88 View Post
I have a hard time sorting out Pot odds and EV. Calculating my equity. I have some things memorized if its even right. Based on the flop if needing 1 card to make a straight i have 4 outs which mkes it a 11:1 odds correct? 9 outs on a flush making it 4:1 odds correct?
According to the table found in the Pot odds and Expected Value lesson they are.

Calculating them using the Rule of Two and Four works as well, remember we are calculating the cance to hit the draw on the next Card:

Gutshot Straight Draw (4 outs): 8% chance according to the Rule of Two and Four, which equals 23:2 or roughly 11:1.

Flush Draw (9 outs): 18% chance, which comes pretty close to 20% or 4:1.

Quote:
Now one of the sites i found with loads of articles to read from has been really helpful but heres the mest up part. Readint through calculating ptt odds it first states Remember! You should only call if the pot odds are greater than the "card odds" (odds of completing your draw. But then a little ways further down it states Remember! You should only call if the percentage chance of making your hand is greater than the percentage of the pot you have to call.

Isnt this just canceling each rule out?
I am relatively new to all of this, but I will give it a try, please take everything I say with a grain of salt. I would be really happy if someone with more experience looks over this and tells me if I am right or wrong.

The first rule you state looks at the odds as in 3:1, 5:2 and so on, the second looks at percentages. Because of this the second rule "works the other way round".

Let's look at an example: 5:1 pot odds for a 4:1 draw (ie a flush draw) indicate you should call. 5:1 pot odds means you have to call for ~17% (1/6*100) of the pot. While a 4:1 draw is another way to describe a draw with a chance of 20% (1/5*100).
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 06, 2012, 01:30 PM
(#4)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hi taunto, I kind of agree you with you that play money practice is not the same as real money practice.
However, play chips as great benefits, especially in the pokerschool tournements, this is great practice as top players are in them and out too prove their worth.

Also play chips fun is a great way to let of tilt issues etc and just have a laugh.

OK,now to a more serious note, its questional wether or not playing just sngs is a good idea to build a bankroll.
Does your BR allow you to buy in at this level that you choose,do you use BR management or is your BR management as mine, on a pay as you go situation.?.

Sngs,mtts have far greater variance than single table cash games. The more the people , the more the variance.

Cash tables are a great way to build BR, less variance, and at the lower levels more than enough people willing to give their chips away.

As for the questions about odds etc, I honestly could not answer, I never use them or maths to be honest with you.

I think more about the opps im playing against rather than the odds and outs.

Cash tables 1c-2c, are good, avoid 6 seaters unless you are confident.

Hope maybe this helps you some way

Last edited by holdemace486; Thu Sep 06, 2012 at 01:40 PM.. Reason: had not finished
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 06, 2012, 01:30 PM
(#5)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
No they are not canceling each other out. One is simply expressed on percentages and the other is expressed in odds (ratios) its just whatever is easier for you to figure.
ratios just give you the odds of catching a winning card. ex: 4:1 meaning 1 time in 5 you will catch, which is the same thing as saying you have a 20% chance of catching. In other words, odds are generaly expressed as against you catching, whereas percentages are expressed as for you catching. see?
So if you have to put in more than 1/5 of the pot (or 20% same thing) then ur not getting a good price to draw to your hand.
Actually if your getting those exact prices to draw it makes it a 0EV (meaning it doesn't matter one way or the other whether you call or pass. Long term it has a 0 expected value) many players dont realize this thinking "i'm paying 20% on a 20% draw(or 1/5 pot on a 4:1 draw) so i'm getting a good price" (NOT SO) so really you need better odds than that to make the play a +EV play long term.
Hope that halps.


May the tinfoil protect you. MT

Last edited by mtnestegg; Thu Sep 06, 2012 at 03:18 PM..
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 06, 2012, 07:57 PM
(#6)
Taunto_88's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 57
Wow i just re-read my orginal post and i must of been half awake due to all the miss spelled words, sorry about that guys.

thank you so much for all the replies so quickly. My BR is kinda on a pay as i go basis lol and its working out allright. I know my limit and know when to stop. I started playing with Play money games last night after I made this post to change things up and try some new stuff out. Glad to say I was cleaning up the table i was on, and made $26000 in play money.

I understand the different statements i have posted. Never realized that one was a ratio and one was a %. Also forgot about the rule of 2 and 4 which makes figureing out odds alot easir. I remember reading that course, here at Pokerschool.

So 6max tables I should stray away from unless i feel confident your saying? is this because of the quality of players? Also in 6max tables can I loossen up my cards i choose to play with. I have been trying to stick to the tight/Agressive style due to being a beginner and testing different ideas and styles of playing with the play money tables. But my problem i find sometimes Is that I feel like im playing almost too tight. A7 off suit, should i be playing that pre-flop? and what type of connectors are good to go into the pot with? it almost seems like when I do bet with a good connector such as 910s, seems like the flop turns out to be 2,6,K or something like that. and vice versa for when I dont bet.

Is any connectors 7 and up good to be playing depending on the bet or call? or should anything 7-10 be suited? is this just preference and varies from player to player, table to table, opponent to opponent?
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 06, 2012, 09:42 PM
(#7)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hi taunto, six seaters tend to be looser and generally looser starting hands are played.

Ten seaters, yes the tag/nit approach is far more advisable.

A7 os not a great starting hand in any format, however against the right opp it could be played, and some times playing it aggressive in posistion can bring down some pots home.

But that is mostly read dependant situations and not generally a great starting hand.

Suited connecters, suited connecters are definately a better starting hand than A7, or just generally any rag hand.

6 max suited connecters can be great in posistion, or if feeling confident even out of posistion, again though mostly read dependant, I prefer to play suited connecters against the tags/nits rather than trying to call A7 etc when i know they possibly holding AQ etc.
And remember 56 suited is the hand to play that plays well against aces.

Personally if i feel like a passive game and want some relaxing tag/nit play I would opt for full ring game.

If however, I feel a bit aggressive would go for a six seater every time, maybe even HU action.

TEN SEATERS, NIT/TAG

SIX SEATERS,TAG/LAG

Remember posistion,

Try not to bluff to much, people will call with one pair, but also remember that for value bets.

Hope some way this helps you, and off cause this is only my thoughts on it, As for BR I happily min deposit $10 and that gives me ten goes at 1c 2c for a $1 doller buyin for example.

I find this enough for plenty of action, and is little money for the experience of the practice.

And just too add, its not the quality of player at six seater, its more hands are been played by the opps so reads become more tricky.

Last edited by holdemace486; Thu Sep 06, 2012 at 09:49 PM.. Reason: add on
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 06, 2012, 11:34 PM
(#8)
Taunto_88's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 57
Thanxs Holdemace. quick question...may sound dumb due to me being new and all lol but what do you mean by Nit/tag Tag/Lag?
 
Old
Default
Fri Sep 07, 2012, 06:23 AM
(#9)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
hi again taunto, a nit player is a real tight player that will fold most hands, they will even fold hands like JJ,aq, when faced with a raise.

I think the acronyn of NIT, means nice and tight or something along those lines never was sure what the N standed for,

A Tag player is <Tight and aggressive>, this is the most prefered option for play by most.JUst a slight bit more open than a nit player.

LAG - loose and aggressive, playing all conectors and a whole manner of different hands, but still remembering posistion. LAG is more difficult to play than the TAG/NIT approach and should be used when an advanced player rather than a begginner.

 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com