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Calling in big blind with pot odds

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Calling in big blind with pot odds - Tue Sep 11, 2012, 05:22 PM
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dannyb198888's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 94
I have a question about the profitability of calling from the Big Blind.

Lets say the blinds are 25/50 and a player in mid position min raises to 100. We then see the button call and the small blind call. Now we are in the Big Blind and the pot is 350 and we are getting 7:1 to call and see a flop.

The question is, is it worth making the call with very marginal hands, such as Q9o, for example.

I just had this exact situation and elected to fold due to the hand being pretty weak and I was out of position, even though I was getting 7:1 to call.

Danny
 
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Tue Sep 11, 2012, 06:24 PM
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Hi Danny!

Out of position, early in a tourney, the only way I'm playing a hand from the blinds is in the BB for free. If someone raises, then I'm either 3-betting or mucking.

John (JWK24)


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Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:28 PM
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dannyb198888's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
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Thanks JWK, this was on a cash table. Would you play it differently on a cash table?
 
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Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:38 PM
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Hi Danny!

I'd play it pretty similar at a cash table too.... although, I may or may not open my range up some due to the others at the table once I get a read on them.
I still don't like playing a hand out of position, where I could easily be outkicked... it'll cost too much money to do so in the long run.

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Tue Sep 11, 2012, 07:55 PM
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dannyb198888's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
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Yeah that was my thinking too, even if I hit top pair with a Queen with Q9o my hand still isn't great and I'll be in a tough spot if I see raises in front.
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:38 AM
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holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
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Hi danny, The correct play is to fold, as JW says in tourney.

Also full ring the best option is to fold.

But maybe on a six seater, I would raise,

1. to narrow the pot down hopefully

2, to get a better read of the situation

The flop comes im just going to bet out regardless of what the community brings, and I either take it down then or i pretty much no im crushed

Then even if im crushed, if it stays cheap enough i may still call the opp down, leaving oppurtunity to take his/her chips in a later hand.

Decieving the percieved image of me.

Im never just calling though, and 6 seaters are a better format to do theese sort of plays,

Not text book, and by no means is this long term winning play, but in the short instance, sometimes deadly.

I just wanted to add this to JWs brilliance, and maybe learn a few people some moves.

Last edited by holdemace486; Thu Sep 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM.. Reason: typo
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 12:46 PM
(#7)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Totally WRONG Holdem
This could cost you a lot
You're not playing poker by doing that, you're just gambling
Not only do you have a shiity hand but terrible position to continue

No wonder you have a hard tome building a BR
 
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sandtrap - Thu Sep 13, 2012, 01:05 PM
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holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
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I thought I had all ready explained it was wrong it was wrong in my post, and just a move occasinonally maybe, i thought that was called bluffing unless im mistaken?
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 01:24 PM
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OOP, it's not called bluffing... it's throwing my $$$ away if I play that type of hand.

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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 02:24 PM
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mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
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Interesting... What would you say if his hand were say J10s or even 67s looking to flop hard or go away. leak or descent price to see a flop?


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
Interesting... What would you say if his hand were say J10s or even 67s looking to flop hard or go away. leak or descent price to see a flop?
Hey MT!

If I had a hand with some equity and the opps had enough chips behind that I have decent implied odds, then I'd be happy to call and see what happens. I want to be sure that the opps have enough behind, so that I can get paid off if I hit though.

John (JWK24)


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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 03:32 PM
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mtnestegg's Avatar
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Ya thats as I suspected. This very thing happened last night, ep min raised had 2 callers behind and I flat w/ 67s in bb. we all had full stacks, or close to it. I flop top 2 on a 673 rainbow flop and check to the raiser who leads out 3/4 pot. One caller behind so I flat again. Turns a 10. I check. he leads again 3/4 again. other guy folds. I flat again. River's a 2 and I lead for 2/3 pot as I dint want nim to hit the brakes and check behind here. and he flats. Flips AA then goes off on me lol tellin me only losers call raises w/ 67. I just said ok and tthanks for the dough... He was gone after one more hand. Prolly still cussin' me today


May the tinfoil protect you. MT

Last edited by mtnestegg; Thu Sep 13, 2012 at 03:37 PM..
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 03:55 PM
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MT,

That's one that I'd have replied... thanks for pricing me in on every street. The opp should have raised more preflop (min-raising with a big hand is just asking for someone to hit 2-pair against you). Then, I'd have potted it on both the flop and the turn. By betting less, the opp is pricing in even a straight draw, especially 4-handed.
When I improve from top pair to 2-pair on the river, I'd be betting whatever amount I thought the opp would call. With them going 3/4, 3/4, I'd have bet at least another 3/4.

John (JWK24)

P.S. That's the exact reason for a std bet preflop with AA. The more callers that you get, the harder it is to price them out for draws on the turn or river. If you can't price the opp out, then every bet is a +EV play for the opps... meaning every bet that I'd make, I expect to be throwing chips at the opp... something that I do not want to do.


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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 04:21 PM
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mtnestegg's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
MT,

That's one that I'd have replied... thanks for pricing me in on every street. .
Oh no never!!!! No free lessons at tne table let him think me a donkey I say!


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:01 PM
(#15)
big_totoro1's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 4
With the 67 hand, it's a great result hitting the two pair against the AA, but this takes me back to my original point. Is it worth it in the long run? Beating a big pair with small suited connectors can't happen all the time can it.
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 10:06 PM
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dannyb198888's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 94
(BTW, that last reply was from me....didn't realise I was on my friends account lol )
 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:06 PM
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joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
You won't hit every time, but the times you do hit will pay for a lot of misses. A lot depends on your stack size, and the potential to get paid.

 
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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:33 PM
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joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
This is a perfect example, I was priced in with my speculative hand, and got paid off when I hit. I only have to call 250 into a pot that will be 1895, roughly 7.5 to one. After the hand, one of my opponents commented that he never even thought of 79o calling the raise, and that`s exactly the reaction you need to cash in in these spots.

 
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Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:54 AM
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It's only worth it when I have both a hand with a decent amount of equity (Q7o doesn't) and IF the opps have enough chips behind and would be willing to stack off if I hit.

ex: in a 4-way pot vs even random hands, Q7o is the underdog in the hand. If I had say 67s... then I'm the favorite in the hand. I would only want to play something that would have enough equity to make the call a +EV play. Without the hand equity, it's a large chip leak over time.

John (JWK24)


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? jw - Sat Sep 22, 2012, 06:07 PM
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holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
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Hi John I understand your answer and respect that q7os is not even a hand technically and should always, well almost always be a muck unless its a free check,

but curiousity to your answer, is this playing the cards and not the player, or is this poker we should save for more playable players?

and not the micros....

and thx john...

I read it back and sounded wrong, can a player out play them selves where there is sometimes just no need?

Last edited by holdemace486; Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 06:09 PM.. Reason: add on
 

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