Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

NL2 FR 4bet light 107o against russian

Old
Default
NL2 FR 4bet light 107o against russian - Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:07 AM
(#1)
UrGetinTaxed's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 189
hi
ok no disrespect to russians but every time i face a 3bet from bb or button from my mp rasie, i look up where there from and if russia, i just 4bet, the amount of folds i get is unreal, and i cant stop doing it, maybe i should let them of once, but if they do it again then i can 4bet, or maybe just fold and stop doing this as when i move up in stakes not sure what will happen ?....( forget the fact that villain called here and the pot got played, just wondering about 4 beting or not)

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...407_CC8FF90C85


i think 4 beting at nl2 is ok, im puting them to a tuff decision fold or shove, and iv played enuf hands at nl2 to know they only shove AA, what stakes at FR will the shoving range maybe loosens up a bit ?

Last edited by UrGetinTaxed; Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 10:15 AM..
 
Old
Default
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:40 AM
(#2)
Kedan87's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 74
Have you got any reads on the villain? Have you seen them go for a re-steal before? From my experience on 2NL re-stealing is very rare, so I would expect to be way behind when he 3bets.

I haven't tried 4 betting light on the 2NL, maybe it's something I need to test out. Due to the lack of re-steals I expect them to hold a premium hand (from what I've seen most 2NL FR players have a 3bet of 5% or even less) and be looking to stack off with me and I’m never doing that with T7o lol.

I want to know what a trainer has to say about 4 betting light on 2NL though.

You couldn't have asked for a better flop, nice hand
 
Old
Default
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 10:47 AM
(#3)
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Firstly I would like to say I have only recently started 3-betting light myself and it is something I'm not too great at yet. Nevertheless I will throw in my 2 cents.

Personally I do very little, if any, 4-bet bluffing at 2nl and even if I do I don't want to be doing it with a like T7o. Before I come on to why I wouldn't 4-bet light with T7o I want to say that I think you are massively misjudging your fold equity. When you 4-bet light the aim is to get a fold immeadiately, this relies on you having fold equity. Here you are judging your fold equity on the nationality of the player which imo is not advisable. Just because they are russian does not mean they are a maniac, many russians actually play solid poker so if I were you I would stop judging your fold equity on something such as a players nationality and base it on solid reads and HUD stats.

Also in my experience at 2nl (none playing FR) not many players actually 3-bet light anyway so you wouldn't have much fold equity in this spot.

As I said earleir when you 3, 4 or even 5 bet light you are trying to get a fold immediately, even if you do have fold equity sometimes you will run into a hand and they will call (or shove). When an opponent does call you want to have something to fall back on and for me T7o does not qualify as something to fall back on.

If you hit a pair you're likely not good; you aren't likely to hit a flushdraw and even if you do you're not going to like your kicker. The best you can hope for really is to hit a straight draw which still isn't great. You want a hand with a lot of flopability; suited, connected cards that are reasonably high make good light 3 and 4 betting candidates, you definately want at least an A or K as a blocker in my opinion. However as I said I have only just begun 3-betting light recently.

I would definately reccommend watching Dave's 3 betting essentials video, I've watched it a few times now and I'm still learning new stuff

All this said nice flop and nice pot, congrats.

Best of luck

Oliver


Follow me on: Twitter

Last edited by Croyd93; Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 10:52 AM..
 
Old
Default
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:12 AM
(#4)
UrGetinTaxed's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 189
Have you got any reads on the villain? Have you seen them go for a re-steal before? From my experience on 2NL re-stealing is very rare, so I would expect to be way behind when he 3bets.

I haven't tried 4 betting light on the 2NL, maybe it's something I need to test out. Due to the lack of re-steals I expect them to hold a premium hand (from what I've seen most 2NL FR players have a 3bet of 5% or even less) and be looking to stack off with me and I’m never doing that with T7o lol.

I want to know what a trainer has to say about 4 betting light on 2NL though.

i think re steals (3 beting light) must be geting more common, at nl2 , the amount of folds im geting are far more than the calls or shoves, so seems ev+ so far, i have about 150k hands at nl2 (10bb/100) and seem to find it more often now than when i started .but could just be lucky so far, want the trainers opinion too
...lol i think 107o is bottom of my range for doing this, but it still has equity incase the rare ocasion when i get a called if they shove its an easy fold
 
Old
Default
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:27 AM
(#5)
UrGetinTaxed's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 189
Firstly I would like to say I have only recently started 3-betting light myself and it is something I'm not too great at yet. Nevertheless I will throw in my 2 cents.

Personally I do very little, if any, 4-bet bluffing at 2nl and even if I do I don't want to be doing it with a like T7o. Before I come on to why I wouldn't 4-bet light with T7o I want to say that I think you are massively misjudging your fold equity. When you 4-bet light the aim is to get a fold immeadiately, this relies on you having fold equity. Here you are judging your fold equity on the nationality of the player which imo is not advisable. Just because they are russian does not mean they are a maniac, many russians actually play solid poker so if I were you I would stop judging your fold equity on something such as a players nationality and base it on solid reads and HUD stats.

Also in my experience at 2nl (none playing FR) not many players actually 3-bet light anyway so you wouldn't have much fold equity in this spot.

As I said earleir when you 3, 4 or even 5 bet light you are trying to get a fold immediately, even if you do have fold equity sometimes you will run into a hand and they will call (or shove). When an opponent does call you want to have something to fall back on and for me T7o does not qualify as something to fall back on.

If you hit a pair you're likely not good; you aren't likely to hit a flushdraw and even if you do you're not going to like your kicker. The best you can hope for really is to hit a straight draw which still isn't great. You want a hand with a lot of flopability; suited, connected cards that are reasonably high make good light 3 and 4 betting candidates, you definately want at least an A or K as a blocker in my opinion. However as I said I have only just begun 3-betting light recently.

I would definately reccommend watching Dave's 3 betting essentials video, I've watched it a few times now and I'm still learning new stuff

All this said nice flop and nice pot, congrats.

it doesnt matter too much what hand im doing it with its just my stealing bb range, if i get called or shoved on fair enuff i let it go, point is though im geting far more folds so its ev+ so far, but i choose my opponents carefull, mostly when i think villain is thinking player, i used to get all my hand evaluations at pokerstrategy, and from there and other sessions iv wathed here with frosty012, i learn that when somone raises from say MP and your on button, and have a hand that is not good enuff to call a raise and too good to fold then a 3 bet bluff is fine, i do this normally with a hand like KJo, 107o was a bit light but as i say it was my stealing range, and when i think villain is 3 beting me from button light coz thats what you get tought now, then i think any hand your stealing with is good enuff to follow on with 4 bet light..... a brilliant Nl holdem player called takechip if u read his PTR his favourite hand is J9o coz it is such a good hand to 4 bet light with he says, whe you work out the logic behind it it makes sense,(like its the top of his folding range and bottom of his calling range) im just not sure whether i should be doing it on NL2 and nl5 etc, as erm the guy above is it kayden says , be interesting to see what the hand judges say. peace and thaks for ur input!

Last edited by UrGetinTaxed; Wed Sep 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM..
 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 12:26 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi,

I think the real key is to be 4-betting light in a way that is opponent and situation specific. You say you are judging your opponents well (you also say the criteria is "russian" and like croyd I think that's not a good criteria, much prefer to do it based on how actual opponents play). There must be more judgement going on (I hope) since you are having success with it.

Good targets for it:
-loose-aggressive 3-bettors who have a fold button
-aggressive restealers
Good situations:
-spots where your range looks very strong against somewhat thinking opponents.
-spots where you have blockers or deceptive hand value, but your hand isn't quite strong enough to call

Now I know you want some specific answer about 2nl but I won't give that, I want you to think about it in terms of good targets and good situations. How often those do or don't come up at 2nl (or any other limit) not withstanding, if you look at it like this you'll simply start finding the spots more accurately regardless of the limit you're playing.

Hope this helps, I know it's not an extensive answer, but it's a complex topic.

Oh, as for the hand, once you get called and bink the flop getting it in is perfectly standard of course.

Dave


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Thu Sep 13, 2012, 12:03 PM
(#7)
UrGetinTaxed's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 189
haha i was kinda only joking about the russians lol !

im listening to what ur saying tho, i should maybe choose slightly more carefull i think, i just cant seem to respect a 3 bet these days if there on the button or blinds, to easy a way for them to pik up some extra winrate and cash as they no im usually prety weak range if im raising on cut off or button, i do it myself, thats why i think there alwasy doing it too
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com