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10NL 6 Max River dilema

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10NL 6 Max River dilema - Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:49 AM
(#1)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474


Villain 1: 237 hands, 28/21 AF: 1.7, Flop FCB: 50% (14)
Villain 6: 633 hands, 28/16, AF: 2.8, Flop FCB: 51%

I was playing 21/20 on the table.

1) So I was wondering if the Cbet on the flop was the right thing to do, representing the Ace and take down the pot.

2) The river bet was a legitimate size, 3/4 pot so was it an easy fold?

Last edited by TheAwesomeNW; Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 01:39 AM.. Reason: Wrong Villain #
 
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Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:39 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Did you post the right hand? The hand and your comments do not match.
 
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Wed Sep 19, 2012, 06:57 PM
(#3)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Villain 1: 237 hands, 28/21 AF: 1.7, Flop FCB: 50% (14)
Villain 2: 633 hands, 28/16, AF: 2.8, Flop FCB: 51%

I was playing 21/20 on the table.

1) So I was wondering if I should have Cbet on the flop to represent the Ace and take down the pot.

2) The river bet was a legitimate size, 3/4 pot so was it an easy fold?
Hi

I think your flop c-bet is a good choice. This is because we have fold equity, so we can definitely pick up the pot on the flop with a bet often. Even though we have a pair it is a weak pair, and we are out of position and multiway, so there is a premium we should place on winning the pot here and now. If the blind calls and the button folds then we get to play in position the rest of the hand, which is also a win.

I think however that your preflop raise was probably poor. Our hand is simply too weak. Even with 86s I wouldn't recommend this open, though the button is a different story. Something to watch out for.

On the turn I prefer you continue to bet. There are still a lot of hands to get value from despite the flush coming in. Flushes may not raise us often because of the paired board, so often we will set our own price to see the river and we also value bet AX and protect our hand from 1 spade draws.

On the river I would definitely advocate a fold. This isn't a situation where someone is going to be betting a worse hand for value or to be betting as a bluff. Remember this player checked and called twice out of position in a three-way pot. He has to have something. Even if he had a hand like T9 that he should have folded, he made a pair on the river, and he would check. So there are no hands that make sense for him to bluff. But there are a ton of hands that beat us. When the pot is three-way, has seen action on every street, and is paired and flushing, trips with no kicker become quite a marginal holding, definitely something to throw away when confronted with such a big bet out.

Hope that is useful
 
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Thu Sep 20, 2012, 01:51 AM
(#4)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
@TrumpinJoe: Sorry, wrong villain number and my comment wasn't clear. Point 1: *whether flop cbetting was right. Thanks for pointing out and I've edited it!

@Gareth: Preflop I wanted to build up a loose image, thus opening 86o, but didn't take into account that the 2 guys behind had low FCB% haha. River was bad play by me, falling for it so many times.

However on the turn, wouldn't betting the turn fold out Ax and one pair hands? Seems like great strength and probably only a turned flush and nut flush draw (Ks) would call? Was thinking about pot control. Is it considered a WAWB situation and to play passive here?
 
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Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:17 PM
(#5)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey Awesome

The turn is definitely not a way ahead way behind spot. The board can still change greatly with the addition of a four flush card or another board pair or another straightening card. Way ahead way behind spots are boards that are not expected to change relative to the range of hands people hold. So if people have QQ, KK, and AA in a 4 bet pot, a 7632 board is one that is a way ahead way behind situation.

In a single raised pot of UTG v CO, a KK2r board is a way ahead way behind situation, while a J93fd board is not. Similarly if the KK2r board checked through a produced a flush draw on the Jc, now there are possible straight draws, flush draws, combination draws, and pairs, all of change the situation out of way ahead way behind.

So if you are considering this turn situation WA/WB right now I think you need to reconsider your working definition and what type of boards still have potential for big changes. The main thing on this turn is that potential one card flush draws and straight draws are still out there, in addition to top pair, all of which can pay off your hand.
 
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Sun Sep 23, 2012, 12:53 AM
(#6)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Ok thanks, made me clearer about WAWB situations. Will keep that in mind!
 

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