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Deal making

Deal making - Sun Nov 17, 2002, 11:31 AM
Deleted user
Mark has promised to have one of the teachers develop some materials on deal making, but I'd like to get some help ASAP.

Yesterday I played in a little $50+5 buyin, $1000 added, no rebuy, limit tourney at the Cal Grand. Designed to last about 2 hours, blind levels go up every 15 minutes:
500/1000 (ouch!)

I managed to get lucky at all the right times and we were down to 3 players, blinds have just gone up to 2000/4000 level. There was about $2500 prize money left. Payout is $1500 for first, $600 for second, $400 for third. Chip counts: I have 8000, player on my right has 7000, player on my left has 5000.

Talk turns to a deal. Button is on my left, I am the BB.

Could some of the more experienced deal makers post their thought process and solution to the following questions:

1. Why or why not make a deal at this point? What factors go into your decision? Answer this question from the perspective of each player at the table at this precise moment.
2. What are the different methods for calculating a "fair deal"? How do you do this at the table (the TD stops the clock while deals are discussed)?

Extra credit: How much of a tip do you leave for the dealers?

I will post the deal we made later. I probably could have done a little better...
Sun Nov 17, 2002, 12:30 PM
Deleted user
was about $2500 prize money left. Payout is $1500 for first, $600 for second, $400 for third. Chip counts: I have 8000, player on my right has 7000, player on my left has 5000

i would have taken the 2500 in prize money, and said we are each guaranteed 400. so you pay each of you 400 and that leaves you with 1300. there is 20k in chips, you have 40%, the 7k stack has 35% and the 5k has 25%. take the 1300 and split it according to those percentages. 3rd place would get 325 extra. 2nd place would get 455 extra. and 1st place would get 520. by extra, i mean on top of the 400 that each of you has taken for the guarenteed third place finish. if someone argues about position and you going into the blinds, etc...... that doesnt matter to me, i could catch aces , and it is only going to take one hand to bust someone at those levels. so when talking a deal, first and foremost, be comfortable with the final decision. if need be, ask the tournament director for a calculator to figure things out. it is the easiest way i think to chop up the money. if someone doesnt agree, or is trying to get more, just tell them you would rather play it out than get cheated. if you win, you make a sweet payday.good luck to you,

deal - Sun Nov 17, 2002, 12:32 PM
Deleted user

Since you're all guaranteed $400, it goes like this:

You get: 40% of 1300= 520, for 920 in all;

Player on your right gets: 35% of 1300= 455, for 855:

Player on your left makes 25% of 1300= 325, for 725.

Most of the time (Foxwoods was an exception!), I'm averse to making deals, but with the blinds going up so rapidly, this event is a
pure crapshoot for all concerned.

It's customary for the winner to toke 2-3%; of the 29K I cashedat Foxwoods, I left $700 for the dealers, or about 2.5 %.

Hope this helps.

Sun Nov 17, 2002, 02:26 PM
Deleted user
Another good thing to remember when it is such a crapshoot is that you should probably only make a deal when you are the chip leader. If you have the shortest stack, then refuse a deal unless it is very favourable. Under a high structure like that, the shortest stack could easily be the biggest stack/winner after a few more hands. So taking a deal in that case, even if fair mathematically, is not in your best interests.
Sun Nov 17, 2002, 06:43 PM
Deleted user
I think ultimately it comes down to bankroll. If you're playing within a fairly large bankroll, you can withstand the fluctuations that come from playing tournaments to their completion, while your long-run EV will not be harmed.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't make deals; quite the opposite actually. What I've found is that, when I get into the money in smaller tournaments, most players are pretty desperate to chop it up, while I'm perfectly content to play it out. This is a TREMENDOUS advantage when it comes to dealmaking.

I recently played a tournament where, at the final table, the other 8 players wanted to make a deal. With the 2nd biggest stack and no fear of variance, I refused. They asked what it would take for me to make a deal, and after thinking for a minute, I told them that I had the 2nd biggest stack and therefore wanted the 2nd place money. Amazingly, after seeing I wasn't going to be moved, they agreed, and I took home 2nd place money (which was the largest payout, and more than the chip leader took home).
Sun Nov 17, 2002, 11:50 PM
Deleted user
Here's how we split it:

I got $930
2nd biggest stack got $930
3rd biggest stack got $640

I was going to push for a bit of a premium but it seemed like I was getting a fair deal and the third place guy was getting a little screwed. The way we did it was to basically split the 2500 in thirds, and then the 3rd place guy gave up $100 to each of us.
Another Way - Mon Nov 18, 2002, 02:10 PM
Deleted user
It's now a crapshoot with the blinds so high. So a deal is good for everyone!

The $5k player has 3rd locked up - so they've got to do better than that.

The simple split based on chip count works here.

8000+7000+5000 = 20k chips. $2.5k prize money = $.125/chip. Easy & quick to calculate at the table.

8000 * .125 = $1,000
7000 * .125 = $ 845
5000 * .125 = $ 625

And you got pretty close. In fact , I think you did very well. I'm not sure the 7k player would have agreed you're entitled to "a little premium" After, all, with only a 1k lead, and the blinds at 2k/4k - you don't even have a SB lead!!

The only though I had was that if I'd been the $5k player, I'd have asked for $700 and let you 2 split the $1800!!

Tips: I'm always unsure about this myself, but I've read between 2% & 5% depending on the prize.
- I guess I'd have left $40 - 50 if I'd won.
- as the prize goes up, the percentage goes down.

BTW, congrats
Re: Another Way - Mon Nov 18, 2002, 02:14 PM
Deleted user
Originally Posted by Blind Bat 07
I'm not sure the 7k player would have agreed you're entitled to "a little premium" After, all, with only a 1k lead, and the blinds at 2k/4k - you don't even have a SB lead!!

BTW, congrats
Thanks. That was my thinking in not going after a chip leader premium. With the blinds that high, we didn't even have that much of a lead over the short stack!

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