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not happy :( - Sun Oct 07, 2012, 10:12 AM
(#1)
jperrie-uk's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
BronzeStar
i dont feel that pokerstars is playing fair none of the stuff i have been reading through in the courses seem to work or apply to the games of open skill or 100:k deposit game. does any one else feel the same????
 
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Sun Oct 07, 2012, 10:33 AM
(#2)
WeaselBasher's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,138
maybe you missed the bet sizing lessons.........

Welcome, and GL

Weasel
 
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Sun Oct 07, 2012, 10:45 AM
(#3)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,028
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jperrie-uk View Post
apply to the games of open skill or 100:k deposit game.
Hi jperrie-uk,

Remember that the Open Leagues and the Depositor games are large field MTT's and Freerolls

As a result, not all of the players in these tournaments might be treating them as seriously as you. Also, many might be beginners who have not yet developed their game, and as a result they make bad bets and bad decisions.

These games are played by other players and not by PokerStars, who would have no say in the decision making process of the players at the table.

Over time, the players that work hard at their game become better players for it.

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner



Last edited by royalraise85; Sun Oct 07, 2012 at 10:47 AM..
 
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Sun Oct 07, 2012, 03:09 PM
(#4)
boobylops's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 232
BronzeStar
The Open Skill League is a specialised event which bears no resemblance to "REAL" poker.

98% of the players in this couldn't care less because it's a "freeroll" and they are gambling for the pennies at the end of each tourney.

The main aim of OSL is to teach you patience and hand selection, and thus the real prizes are at month end when you are rewarded for consistently good results.

I have sent you a pm with more details on how to play OSL to win money at month end.
 
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Sun Oct 07, 2012, 03:44 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
I made a deposit last month just so I could play those depositor freerolls, and didn't cash *once*.

Not only that, but by flaming out in such fantastic fashion, it wound up eroding my confidence so badly when it comes to tourneys that I don't even feel capable of making a cash any more.

Like I'm terrified to put money down, even so much as a quarter or 10FPPs, to even try.

It really did a number on my self-esteem.


I think I'm gonna have to watch like at least a 10 Chewme videos before I'll feel up to even considering giving one a go again.

And my track record in tourneys isn't even that bad.


I'm trying to think of a better place for you to maybe get better experience at trying to put the lessons you've been learning into practice ... hmmm ... maybe some of the home games or something?
 
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feelings - Tue Oct 09, 2012, 04:02 PM
(#6)
DaiDark's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 51
I would say if you feel that way dont go and play cash and one thing i seen hear at PSO is lots of ways to control your feelings dont let them show at a table for a start the 100k i find is relly good value for money?well worth the add on when you make it that far once you do it the 1st time it should not be that hard the next time.
 
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Tue Oct 09, 2012, 04:17 PM
(#7)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaiDark View Post
I would say if you feel that way dont go and play cash and one thing i seen hear at PSO is lots of ways to control your feelings dont let them show at a table for a start the 100k i find is relly good value for money?well worth the add on when you make it that far once you do it the 1st time it should not be that hard the next time.
Were you trying to give me advice here? Because all the o/p seems to be playing are freerolls.

Like were you saying that because you've cashed at depositor freerolls, anybody who hasn't must really be bad or something and therefore shouldn't be playing "cash games"? Did you mean cash games, or tourneys with a cash buy-in?

I don't know what your experience was at the depositor freerolls was, but with the short starting stacks, and turbo speed, I found it virtually impossible to get head-to-head against just one person. Which meant I rarely had more than 33% equity when all-in (full-ring, more people).

Ergo, I don't see how you're arriving at the conclusion that one needs to be able to cash in a depositor freeroll to be able to be profitable at cash games. Especially in light of the fact that I didn't cash in a depositor freeroll, and I AM profitable at cash games, and have been consistently for well over a hundred thousand hands, with a solid win-rate.

I guess you must have meant tourneys with cash buy-ins ... like that if a person can't cash in a depositor freeroll, they shouldn't be playing tourneys with a cash buy-in? Well to that I'd say that tourneys come with a lot of different structures - so the structure of the depositor freeroll, which is a lot more like a 2-times-turbo rebuy than a regular speed 6-max, might be something for somebody to avoid who's running bad. But getting your stack in with AKo in a multi-way pot isn't necessarily something that's going to happen a lot in the Big $2.20.

So I don't think you can necessarily conclude that somebody who didn't win at least 1 in 3 times as a 33% favorite ought not to pay buy-ins until they can. And you can't necessarily conclude that if you've cashed in a depositor freeroll, that you've got all the skills you need to routinely do well in the big $2.20. I mean like it might, but it might not.

Like here's a hand where I bubbled - some people might see min-cashes as more important that trying to maximize equity, so I KNOW some people will view my choice to play this hand close to the bubble as a sign of a 'bad player', and that a 'good player' would have folded - and probably you're one of those people. But I guess ultimately I've just chosen to always try to maximize EV on the belief that the money will follow. So that's like an ideological difference I guess ... but you can call me a 'bad player' if you want for not going for that $0.33 or whatever ...




Probably you weren't thinking much of that at all, were you ... or at least not consciously?

Last edited by TrustySam; Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 04:39 PM..
 
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Tue Oct 09, 2012, 11:31 PM
(#8)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
@Sam - don't you just hate it when they call your all in with junk and catch on the river?? Well played, I would have done exactly the same thing.

 
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Thu Oct 11, 2012, 12:47 AM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hey, thx Joy!!!

I was just thinking of you the other day, because I'm doing that 6-max challenge and one of the prizes for the winning team (if we wind up winning) is a chance to play a $5.50 MTT with $100 added ... and I was wondering to myself whether it'd be possible to have somebody play for me, like you (and then we'd split the prize)

Except that I suck at tourneys so I'm sure the team would insist I play instead LOL!!!

Oh well ... hey nice to see u still dropping in - hope the tables are goin' great for ya Joy!!!
 
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Thu Oct 11, 2012, 01:20 PM
(#10)
Don B. Cilly's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 394
Way I see it:
I'm one of those who min-cashes a lot and seldom makes FT in big-number tourneys.

See my 'scope graphs, they really tell the story. I have two because I got kicked out of Pokerstas due to nationalization, cashed out because of terrorism, and after a while - mainly due to the September freerolls) started min-playing again on Poquerstars, which you would "love" as much as I do.

The funny thing is, although I'm not a "losing" player - see graphs- I think of myself as a "bad" player precisely because I can't quite do just that, risk it all near the bubble, near FT, etc.

So you're probably the "good" player in this context, and although you have to put up with higher variance than us nitties, if and when the results come, they'll certainly be results worth having played for.

That said, I got nationalized just as I was getting a bankroll I could play with, had to start from zero again, in an environment it's costing me a bit to adapt to, I'm still gaining experience without losing, I may graduate eventually :)

Last edited by Don B. Cilly; Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 01:22 PM..
 
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Thu Oct 11, 2012, 08:43 PM
(#11)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
The funny thing is, although I'm not a "losing" player - see graphs- I think of myself as a "bad" player precisely because I can't quite do just that, risk it all near the bubble, near FT, etc.

So you're probably the "good" player in this context, and although you have to put up with higher variance than us nitties, if and when the results come, they'll certainly be results worth having played for.

I kinda take tourney results with a grain of salt, because so many of us play so few of them, that it seems like there maybe isn't a large enough sample size?

And then, just knowing my own graphs - they don't always tell the whole story of how I wound up making x number of dollars. My biggest Sunday Storm cash, at least 1/3 of my cash I made by blinding out because I lost my fold equity before I could push-fold - and then it got so lucrative to just sit, that that's what I did ... lol! On the other hand though, more than 1/2 of the cash for sure was directly a result of watching Chewme videos and playing the way he taught - like without learning the stuff I did about big-stack play on the bubble, I'd have never made as much as I did.

Probably if I hadn't lost my fold equity I might have tried to stay more textbook, and maybe next time I will. But, like ... I don't really like to think in terms of black and white, and 'right' and 'wrong', and 'good' and 'bad' ... sometimes different things can be best for different people and different situations and different times, eh? Like maybe it's up to each person to decide what's right and best for them and their situation and what they hope to get out of things?

That kind of sucks that all the European countries are sectioning off like that ... I would have thought that EU countries would be more open or something?

On the other hand, you get to live in Spain ... muy bueno My parents are going to Barcelona for vacation in a couple of weeks ... they're super excited!



 
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Agree with Joy - Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:40 AM
(#12)
khrndz1737's Avatar
Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
@Sam - don't you just hate it when they call your all in with junk and catch on the river?? Well played, I would have done exactly the same thing.

Yeah, with 10 BB, I think it's an easy shove. You are a 68 to 31% favorite in that situation (granted you don't know your opponents cards when you shove)

And I don't agree with folding to min-cash. If you had A-A, the result would have been the same, and I know you wouldn't have folded A-A to min-cash, right?
 
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Fri Oct 12, 2012, 03:31 AM
(#13)
CannonLee's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,418
**moved to a more appropriate forum**



Quintuple Bracelet Winner

 
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Fri Oct 12, 2012, 04:21 PM
(#14)
Garrns's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Like here's a hand where I bubbled - some people might see min-cashes as more important that trying to maximize equity, so I KNOW some people will view my choice to play this hand close to the bubble as a sign of a 'bad player', and that a 'good player' would have folded - and probably you're one of those people. But I guess ultimately I've just chosen to always try to maximize EV on the belief that the money will follow. So that's like an ideological difference I guess ... but you can call me a 'bad player' if you want for not going for that $0.33 or whatever ...
Decent shove imho, unless you really want to min-cash (the nice won $200+ sattelite and couldn't unregister example ). Regarding the freerolls, I played some and even cashed some, I even got a big stack in one, then my connection failed and I blinded out at 170 something for $1 . But I wouldn't make another deposit just to be able to play these. The structure is somewhat sucky and you have to gamble pretty extremely at the start to make it in the money, especially if you don't rebuy.
 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 12:00 PM
(#15)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by khrndz1737 View Post
Yeah, with 10 BB, I think it's an easy shove. You are a 68 to 31% favorite in that situation (granted you don't know your opponents cards when you shove)

And I don't agree with folding to min-cash. If you had A-A, the result would have been the same, and I know you wouldn't have folded A-A to min-cash, right?

Hey, thx - that helps a lot to think of it that way

Yeah, definitely never folding AA ... cool, that helps a lot!!

 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 12:10 PM
(#16)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrns View Post
Decent shove imho, unless you really want to min-cash (the nice won $200+ sattelite and couldn't unregister example ). Regarding the freerolls, I played some and even cashed some, I even got a big stack in one, then my connection failed and I blinded out at 170 something for $1 . But I wouldn't make another deposit just to be able to play these. The structure is somewhat sucky and you have to gamble pretty extremely at the start to make it in the money, especially if you don't rebuy.
Okay, cool, thx for adding that about the JJ too - helps to hear that from everybody Yeah, if this were the Sunday Million, I wouldn't even have played my AA that close to the bubble LOL!!

I tried playing these things like the Open League (no rebuy, only AA/KK/AK) but didn't have any luck doing things that way. So I could see how maybe this structure is different and you have to gamble more - I tried that out a couple of times, but I guess it just wasn't my day. Ouch to hear that about your internet that time it was yours ... yikes!! If it isn't one thing, it's another ... :/

Oh well, there's always that next time, and it's fun to keep dreaming of that one big time

Thx for the tips - they helped a lot!!

 

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