Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

5NL 6-Max ZOOM - KK - bet sizing on flop - overpair v 2 opps .

Old
Default
5NL 6-Max ZOOM - KK - bet sizing on flop - overpair v 2 opps . - Thu Oct 11, 2012, 06:29 AM
(#1)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I am deep stacked here at the 5NL ZOOM table and pick up KK in the big blind.

Pre-flop there is a 3x raise to $0.15 from the cut-off and a 3-bet to $.50 on the button. I 4-bet to $1 and both opponents called.

I think I might have 3-bet a bit bigger to try to take it down or get one of the opps effective stacks to potentially shove on me preflop - but I thought a $1 bet was enough to get the most likely caller - the 3-bettor on the button - all in on the flop. When they both called I thought I probably should have 4-bet bigger.

Flop has potential for draws and I was unsure about my bet sizing - but I want to lead out with a bet on the flop - with both opps to act behind what would be a decent bet size?



Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan

Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:35 AM..
 
Old
Default
Thu Oct 11, 2012, 04:19 PM
(#2)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hi EdinFreeman

I think you are right that you should have 4-bet a little bit larger but not by that much. Perhaps instead of 1$ you could have made it 1.20. This is 24 times the big blind and usually a good size to consider for a four bet in this situation.

We aren't necessarily opposed to seeing a three-way flop versus a heads up flop, but being out of position, playing heads up is certainly going to be easier.

The initial raiser cold called the four bet. By that I mean he had put in his raise but not the three-bet before he decided to commit himself to the four bet. So, he was only in for a little bit, but decided to call a lot.

To me that means he could have a lot of candidate hands like 99, TT, JJ, and QQ that we could stack on this flop.

That's going to be very good for us if it comes to be.

So I would start probably by betting 1.35 or so, something large which builds the pot even more and gets value from worse hands. But it also doesn't look like we are necessarily committed. We could certainly still have AK in their eyes. I wouldn't be looking to fold even if both my opponents move all-in. Unless you are running a heads up display or have some read on the deeper stack. Sometimes you can certainly fold but this should be viewed as a very good flop in general to make some cash.
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:13 AM
(#3)
craig121212's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 246
I don't play 5nl so not sure if the players are the same as 2nl.

But at 2nl if someone is willing to 3bet I usually just shove as a 4bet with AA or KK, these are actually the only hands i 4bet.

When i do this lots of weird hands show up, the usual is a TT+ range, with AK thrown in. But I've had players call with 44 or Q7o. I'd rather get the money in when I'm ahead of a players range and make my decisions easy, i can lose a lot of money not knowing when to give up with the AA or KK as an overpair so i like letting people make a total fish call, and also they won't see a board they won't like and get away from a hand worse than mine that they would call preflop. Also think the shove might look fishy sometimes.

I know this wouldn't work at higher stakes but at 2nl it does well, and I'm not sure about 5nl.
 
Old
Default
Sat Oct 13, 2012, 04:46 AM
(#4)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
I think I am prepared to go broke here also.
I have seen plenty of players at this limit play AA in villan 6's position thinking it's a good idea to get it all in on the flop after getting that extra bit of money out of villan 1, but if he has AA or a set then I'm going broke. Like previously said he could have plenty of smaller overpairs now which are willing to pay off.
One thing you do have to consider with your bet sizing is don't be making it an amount were if Villan 6 calls and then villan 1 decides they are re-shoving all in you are left with an under raise. I would probably bet either over $2.42 to put villan 1 all in or $1. Then if villan 1 shoves I can re-shove on villan 6
 
Old
Default
Sat Oct 13, 2012, 04:50 AM
(#5)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
Hi EdinFreeman

I think you are right that you should have 4-bet a little bit larger but not by that much. Perhaps instead of 1$ you could have made it 1.20. This is 24 times the big blind and usually a good size to consider for a four bet in this situation.

We aren't necessarily opposed to seeing a three-way flop versus a heads up flop, but being out of position, playing heads up is certainly going to be easier.

The initial raiser cold called the four bet. By that I mean he had put in his raise but not the three-bet before he decided to commit himself to the four bet. So, he was only in for a little bit, but decided to call a lot.

To me that means he could have a lot of candidate hands like 99, TT, JJ, and QQ that we could stack on this flop.

That's going to be very good for us if it comes to be.
So I would start probably by betting 1.35 or so, something large which builds the pot even more and gets value from worse hands.
But it also doesn't look like we are necessarily committed. We could certainly still have AK in their eyes. I wouldn't be looking to fold even if both my opponents move all-in. Unless you are running a heads up display or have some read on the deeper stack. Sometimes you can certainly fold but this should be viewed as a very good flop in general to make some cash.
Thanks Gareth -

The opp did have a hand that was a good candidate to get in with...

I made a large bet on the flop - below pot size but effectively putting the shorter of the two opponents all-in - and they were the one that called.



Sigh

Ed
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com