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should i of played this different

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should i of played this different - Sun Oct 14, 2012, 10:45 AM
(#1)
stedds's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 255
 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 11:19 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I would have shoved pre-flop instead of raising.

We're at what? 12bb?

That to me is a shove in most normal STT/MTT's. He still might have called given his stack but I would have felt better shoving than bet/bet/call and the end result is the same if he does call the shove.
 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 11:45 AM
(#3)
stedds's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 255
yea there was no doubt in him calling thats for sure playing nearly all hands
 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 12:17 PM
(#4)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Hi Stedds


Nothing wrong with preflop shove.
Nothing wrong with preflop raise then shove any non-AK flop.

So I don't mind your play here as you have a definite read on the opp who calls post-flop with worse - although I am not sure about the other opps tendencies so I might be more cautious post flop - as it is a PSO league game - and given you are in early position.

Shoving preflop is a pretty decent option - I would do that a lot of the time here - but not every time - especially in the league and where I have just enough chips to contemplate a raise and fold on a AKx type flop.

This flop versus 3 callers I don't like much either - I wouldn't put anyone on AA/KK due to the passive preflop calls - but middling pairs or connected cards that flop sets or straight draws here are a lot of their preflop calling ranges. So I probably wouldn't lead out on the flop when the only way to do so is bomb the rest of my stack - I prefer to wait to see what action came and evaluate against that player if I thought I was likely to still be ahead and get it in only if I thought I was mostly ahead.

Tough break. Good luck.

Ed
 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 12:21 PM
(#5)
stedds's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 255
cheers ed i had a really good read on him i put him on 55s or 99s from his call so i knew i was ahead and i got the gut feeling he was going to connect with the turn or river and he got there on the river my reads have been coming on well but i cant fold the best hand in that situation just sums up the last 5 days in the oremier league
 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 01:39 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
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Hi stedds!

With QQ in a league game, I'm going to make a standard raise, which for this blind level for me is to 3BB+1BB for each limper. I lower it to 2.5BB+1BB for a limper at 100/200. Due to this, I'll raise to 480.

The board brings three coordinated unders. The first opp checks and I need to make a bet that will have anyone drawing to a straight have a -EV play. Since there is not a flush draw with the straight draws, I can accomplish making both opps have a -EV draw by betting 1/2 pot here. Due to this, I will bet 697. I don't want to overbet this here, as I do not want all my chips into the pot until I know I'll have the best hand after all 5 cards are on the board.... and as of now, that may or may not happen. I want to make the smallest bet that can have all of the opps make a negative draw.

The same thing on the turn, when it's a blank. I now need to bet 1/2 pot to price out a possible worst-case combo draw in clubs... where the opp has both a flush and straight draw. However, I don't have that many chips. Since this is a league game, I'm going to check behind on the turn and see the river. If I shove or check.. it's still a +EV play for the opp, however, if I bet... I make it a higher +EV play, as there are more chips in the pot.

The river completes the straight. What I do here is based on what the opp does. If they shove, they have a straight or set and have me beat, so I muck. If they check, I'll check behind and go to showdown.

The key here for me is to bet less on the flop (minimum bet that prices out both opps), then to check behind on the turn, as I don't want to give the opp chips on average when I bet (since it's a +EV draw for them). This way, I can see if the river beats me or not... and if so, I still have some chips to last longer and get more league points with.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 01:57 PM
(#7)
stedds's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 255
cheers john all has been taken in will have it noted for next time i dont undertsand what you mean by -ev or +ev though lol but i didnt want him to get there cheap thats why i bet pot size plus i had nearly half my stack in anyway so thought got to follow it through but will deffo take your approach the next time it happens thanks again
 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 02:04 PM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
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If this was a cash tourney of any sort, I'm shoving preflop the overwhelming majority of the time.
The only other play I'd even consider is to make a std raise, then shove any flop. That's riskier, because I could let the opp see hitting an A or K.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 02:08 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,862
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A +EV play is one where the equity that I have in my hand is larger than my pot equity. In this type of play, I expect to gain chips each and every time on average.

A -EV play is one where the pot equity is higher than my hand equity. In this case, I expect to LOSE chips on average each and every time.

The EV (expected value) is = pot size * (hand equity - pot equity).

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Oct 14, 2012, 04:47 PM
(#10)
stedds's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 255
yeas cash mtt im shoving no doubts but this i want a call in a way but the cards wasnt on my side and thanks il be taken all this into account just wanted more than the blinds
 

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