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5NL 6max zoom: flopped set multiway

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5NL 6max zoom: flopped set multiway - Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:41 PM
(#1)
craig121212's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 246


Two things I'm wondering about this hand, what does the opponent have?
And could I have played this better?

The notes I had on the player:
"when opens on button will bet big 3 streets with overcards trying to get a fold"

So i thought i played this properly, even though he couldn't have overcards he could still bluff at it
 
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Wed Oct 17, 2012, 12:03 AM
(#2)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Hey Craig,

Got to ask yourself pre flop, what do you expect to do with 66 as a lot of hands can beat it. I think that calling a limp is a bad mistake, you're showing weakness. Then you call a re-raise, at this point the only thing you should be expecting is a set, which you got.

Then you check, showing signs of weakness again. Now the players could have and A or a K or a QJ for a possible straight. I know an A won't fold but a K or QJ will fold to a re-raise or an all in, so you decide to call. To me this means you want to see the turn card. Going all in at this point you're assured of $4.96 if he folds

The turn card is a bit scary, now the players have a straight, flush possibilities, they can also catch another A or K. So at this point it's re-raise all in. If he catches a straight or a flush or another K, so be it

This is a spot where I like to take the money and run, no fancy play, no slow play. So much can happen when you give the other players the opportunity to catch.

Just my 2 cents


PS. The hand you folded against me in the 5NL Zoom, I had AK and my K gave me the flush...good fold.. sorry...LOL

Last edited by Sandtrap777; Wed Oct 17, 2012 at 12:05 AM..
 
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Wed Oct 17, 2012, 12:37 AM
(#3)
craig121212's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 246
I was just going for a straight set mine, if i was first in i would raise, but with someone limping before me i dont really want to isolate with the 66, I'm happy to call a reasonable isolation, or go multiway.

I checked the flop because the A or K is really likely to hit the raise against limpers range and there is a good chance he would bet out here. I just called the check-raise rather than re-raising because i was hoping the original raiser stayed in with his possible top pair hands.

The turn I actually thought afterwards that i should just have shoved, i didn't really see the original raiser being here with a flush draw, but the other guy could get here with ridiculous cards. I actually called because again i wanted the original raiser to be in, i was pretty sure he had AJ+ here.
 
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Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:29 AM
(#4)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey Craig

This is a well played hand in my opinion. It really could go a few ways.

I would raise preflop, even in MP, but I can see the arguments for limping behind.

The turn is our next real decision point. We can call to keep the third player in, we risk the flush draw or a gutshot coming in. The player pushing the action is unlikely to have a draw though -- A6 AK and KK are his likely hands. Given that we don't really lose much by allowing him to press the action forward.

I think moving all-in wouldn't be a bad play on the turn. We might shut out the third player but we also shut out any backdoor flush draws. Some hands might not put all the money in on the river should we just call the turn.

So this is a spot that could definitely go either way preflop and on the turn. I think that's where some reads on your opponents could help. If someone is liable to check-fold the flop a lot I would raise to isolate them a ton when they limped. If they were a tight player who could limp-three-bet etc, then limping behind could sometimes be best.
 
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Wed Oct 17, 2012, 12:12 PM
(#5)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
i dont mind the limp behind, and raise call at all. I think i'm gettin my chips in on the turn, and chargin max for 2pr. And back doors to get there. Iwouldn't mind pickin this pot up here either if being bluffed at. Your note says on button too and he's not here and cold calls a 3bet pre from oop so I put him on a likely AK for 2 pr. charge him on the turn to catch his boat on ya imo and top two will likely pay you off here. If he has an over set, nice hand
Just my 2¢


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Wed Oct 17, 2012, 12:46 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Different styles for different people
This style, I see it as the GREEDY style. The "I'm want to keep him in so he will pay"

If he's got Ax or AK, no matter what you do, he'll follow you
So, I'm all in after the flop and if he's fishing for a straight with QJ or any other cards, he should fold, therefore giving you a $3.20 plus profit on the hand, which is very good for 5NL. But instead, you opted in slow playing for maximum value and at the same time giving him the chance to catch better

After the flop, if he had gone all in, would you of called?
So why not do it first

I saw the result of that hand and I think my $3.20 possible profit sounds better. Like I said, we each have our own style. I'm a nit at the tables and I'm a nit with my poker money.

GL
 
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Wed Oct 17, 2012, 01:58 PM
(#7)
craig121212's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 246
@mtnestegg, the idea about the button and the betting big 3 streets wasn't that it was a specific position, it's that the player turns showdownable hands, or even air into a bluff, and a lot of the time I think that's what this player does.

@Sand, yes it's greedy, but i prefer to call it max value :P, I'd rather win a $15 pot than a $5 pot any day. And if i shove the turn i think Ax hands would fold, AK would call yea, but AQ, or AJ would fold and they might call behind to a flat call. If he had shoved the flop or turn i would have called. The reason I didn't shove is that I think this is a player that is likely to bluff off a whole stack at a pot, and i want that money, i think he will be folding if i just shove here, with alot of his range that he'd put more money in with.

@Gareth, I think I'm going to really shock you here. This player is a 4-tabling reg, who is usually up quite a lot of money, mostly from pure aggression I think. He had Q7s, and hit the flush on the river
 
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Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:23 PM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hey Craig

This hand reminds me so much of some of the hands I was getting involved in when I first moved up to 5nl. I couldn't understand why people were being SO over-the-top ... almost, like, crazy

I didn't realize that the regs were looking at things like my one-tabling, and my little bronze star ... and I use auto-top up so my stack was always $5, but I was just min-raising with little pocket pairs from early position just like I did at 2nl. Like I didn't realize they were looking at those things and thinking 'noob' until Gareth mentioned in class that that's what regs are thinking about people like me when they see that sort of stuff lol

Here's some of the hands I used to get when I still had my bronze star showing (although you're not playing one table, and your star isn't showing, is it?) ... the 2nd link is a hand where I min-raised with 33 from early position, so that one is somewhat similar to your hand in that respect:

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...ition&p=364503

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...ition&p=364926

The funny thing is that as soon as I started playing more than one table, and turned off my VIP level, and stopped limping/min-raising, the play got a lot more predictable. Almost like, limping changed the dynamic of the play for the hand, you know what I mean? Like by limping in at 5nl, it seemed to invite that 'punish the limpers' moved from somebody in late position almost every time - and that's somebody who might not have even played the hand if there had been an isolation bet happen before the action got to them in late position?

And then limping let the player in the bb in the door with that crap Q7s. Like there were two limpers and a raiser on the button with a half-stack ... that's probably not a hand a 4-tabling reg would otherwise have chosen to play out of position if there had been an early position pre-flop?

So that changed the hand I think?

And then same thing post-flop, since the only bet came from the button and it was so small?


I mean like there's so many different ways to play poker ... I guess I just thought I'd mention that thing about how it I kind of went through something similar, and felt that part of it was that maybe some of the stuff that was okay at 2nl seemed like it was getting perceived and treated differently up at 5nl? That was just my experience though? And there's so many different ways to play poker

Keep crushing at 5nl!!

Last edited by TrustySam; Thu Oct 18, 2012 at 12:07 AM.. Reason: Oh ... had to fix a link :)
 
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Thu Oct 18, 2012, 01:35 AM
(#9)
craig121212's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 246
Hey Sam, I actually 4-table zoom now, and I don't have my vip status showing. And when i raise its always to 3x.

I get what you mean though, the idea of the limp was to try get someone else to come into the pot and isolate and for the limper to come along when he done that, so that if i flopped a set I had more chance of getting stack action. Not seen so much crazy play today, think it just takes a while to settle down and realise who the fish are, who the regs are, and who the maniacs are, it's obvious at 2nl, but 5nl its a little harder to pick up.

Also need to learn to play different hands in different ways.

Things seem to be going well for me so far though , and have 555VPP's this month so far, so I'll have a nice silver star soon enough :P.
 

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