Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

Should I have value bet on the river

Old
Default
Should I have value bet on the river - Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:00 PM
(#1)
RFlush007's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 130
Hi,

The villain was a playing on 22 other cash tables. I believe I had a tight image at the table, although this was the second time in a row that I 3-bet him preflop out of position.



I put him on JJ+, AQ+. The river card completed a possible straight draw that was why I decided to check.

Just want to know if that was the best thing to do?


Regards,
RFlush007
 
Old
Default
Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:17 AM
(#2)
Croyd93's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 639
Hi RFlush,

You say he is a multitabler reg, often I find these players to play a pretty ABC TAG style. However it would be useful to know any reads you have on the player, e.g. how light does he call down?

I think you play the hand well, however on the river I would be value betting (putting him all in). You say you ranged him JJ+ AQ+, I think this a bit off as I don't really see him getting to the river with AQ+, he may call the 3bet preflop and possibly even call one bet on such a low board but with the extreme aggression you have shown betting 3 streets (preflop, flop and the turn) I don't think he will chase a gutshot going to the river.

I think his range mainly consists of pairs that called the 3 bet pre, and liked the look of their chances on a relatively low flop, and blank turn. If he is willing to call two streets with these hands then I think he will also call the river if we shove I expect to get called by TT+ and maybe even 99. These sort of hands will check behind on the river as they have showdown value, this is why I choose the aggressive option that to try and get as much value as possible.

Maybe my reasoning is wrong here so I'll be interested to see what other say.

Good luck

Oliver


Follow me on: Twitter
 
Old
Default
Sun Oct 21, 2012, 01:51 PM
(#3)
RFlush007's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croyd93 View Post
Hi RFlush,

You say he is a multitabler reg, often I find these players to play a pretty ABC TAG style. However it would be useful to know any reads you have on the player, e.g. how light does he call down?

I think you play the hand well, however on the river I would be value betting (putting him all in). You say you ranged him JJ+ AQ+, I think this a bit off as I don't really see him getting to the river with AQ+, he may call the 3bet preflop and possibly even call one bet on such a low board but with the extreme aggression you have shown betting 3 streets (preflop, flop and the turn) I don't think he will chase a gutshot going to the river.

I think his range mainly consists of pairs that called the 3 bet pre, and liked the look of their chances on a relatively low flop, and blank turn. If he is willing to call two streets with these hands then I think he will also call the river if we shove I expect to get called by TT+ and maybe even 99. These sort of hands will check behind on the river as they have showdown value, this is why I choose the aggressive option that to try and get as much value as possible.

Maybe my reasoning is wrong here so I'll be interested to see what other say.

Good luck

Oliver
Thanks for your reply and you were right, he mucked JJ.

Yeah it does make sense that this type of player won't chase his gutshot to the river after my aggressive stance - some good lesson for me.

Regards,

RFlush007
 
Old
Default
Mon Oct 22, 2012, 03:12 AM
(#4)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey RFlush

Don't worry too much about not value betting here. It is a tough spot to value bet

The thing with value betting is that you can't just have the best hand most of the time, the villain has to call with a worse hand more than half the time.

I think a player like this honestly would fold JJ had you shoved the river. He can read the board and knows he can't beat anything you can bet.

So while we might have the best hand 90% of the time here, I don't think he calls with worse 50% of the time or more. Honestly I think a lot of his river calling range facing a shove is going to be pocket aces.

It is a tricky spot to interpret. If your read on a villain is very strong then you can make this shove for value. But a player playing so many tables is likely able to have the discipline to fold here. There is the chance that a smaller bet would work, but I would worry about making this size with the intention of folding to a shove on this board.

It might be close but I think your play is probably fine. Certainly hard to improve upon

Last edited by GarethC23; Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 11:15 AM..
 
Old
Default
Mon Oct 22, 2012, 09:50 AM
(#5)
RFlush007's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
Hey RFlush

Don't worry too much about not value betting here. It is a tough spot to value bet

The thing with value betting is that you can't just have the best hand most of the time, the villain has to call with a worse hand more than half the time.

I think a player like this honestly would fold JJ had you shoved the river. He can read the board and knows he can't beat anything you can bet.

So while we might have the best hand 90% of the time here, I don't think he calls with worse 50% of the time or more. Honestly I think a lot of his river calling range facing a shove is going to be pocket aces.

It is a tricky spot to interpret. If your read on a villain is very strong then you can make this shove for value. But a player playing so many tables is likely able to have the discipline to fold here. There is the chance that a smaller bet would work, but I would worry about making this size with the intention of folding to a shove on this board.

It might be close but I think your play is probably fine. Certainly hard to iprove upon
Thanks Gareth
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com