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Pocket Fours - KKx Flop

Pocket Fours - KKx Flop - Mon Oct 22, 2012, 08:48 PM
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I raise 44 over a limper to 4x and get into a 4-way pot

so far so good - I am set mining and happy to get extra opps and more money in the pot - all fairly deep stacks

Flop comes KK6 - with two hearts - and checks to me - with just the button to act - normally 'no set no bet' but should I rep a K here?

so should I check/fold or bet/fold?


Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:53 PM..
Tue Oct 23, 2012, 05:35 AM
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
I'll take a stab at this one too Ed.

Nice preflop line!

Any reads of importance here? It's likely that all the other players in the pot either have larger pairs than you or two overcards. So, your c-bet is basically a bluff.

Reasons to c-bet:
1. your were the pf aggressor
2. you are probably not going to win the pot any other way
3. it is checked around to you
4. the KK looks scary, but scary to the others as well

Not to c-bet:
1. cbet vs three villians is unlikely to get 3 folds.
2. it is unlikely that you have the best hand
3. the pot is already starting to get big
4. You are not last to act

If I held a larger pair 99+, I would c-bet this spot. With 44 I would want to be last to act AND have some reads on the other players.

As is, I would check/fold the remaining streets unless I spike a 4.

Roland GTX
Tue Oct 23, 2012, 06:01 AM
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post

As is, I would check/fold the remaining streets unless I spike a 4.

Roland GTX
Good reason to check, If the turn is a 4 and someone slow played KX, you have a good chance to stack all their chips in your pile.
Tue Oct 23, 2012, 10:02 AM
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey EdinFreeman

I like a check-fold here on the flop.

As some have mentioned if we are betting this flop then we are check-folding every non 4 turn and that means that our flop bet has to be profitable in of itself since we are basically giving up on all turn cards.

I think our flop bet probably won't be profitable in of itself, and the reason is the 4-way nature of the flop. As the number of opponents go up our requirements for making a c-bet go up, since we expect to get less and less folds.

Here I just don't think we meet the minimum requirements of fold equity + real equity. We don't have to win every pot , so make it a check-fold here.
Tue Oct 23, 2012, 12:21 PM
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Yes - I agree - check/fold is better - so obviously at the time I did bet.

I think my flawed logic was along the lines of, if I check and the button bets nobody will believe they have the K, will call and leave me having to fold - which is OK - but gives me no chance to win here.

If I bet from the cut-off being the pre-flop raiser I can look very strong - they might fold...

I kind of knew it was WRONG as soon as I got a call.

But my friend SPIKE got me out of trouble..

I post these ones to remind me that even though I win the odd one - it doesn't mean I am making correct long-term decisions.

It's one for the 'bad-beats that you win' column..

also though - not sure the villain is a genius - they must surely put me on a flush draw or the other K - with bigger than 9....???


Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 12:32 PM..

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