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KK 2NL FL vs C/R on Flop and Turn - SPR 4

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KK 2NL FL vs C/R on Flop and Turn - SPR 4 - Fri Oct 26, 2012, 10:53 AM
(#1)
Kedan87's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 74
I think I played this hand right, all apart from my turn bet size, not sure what I was doing there, that should have been an all-in.

I played this on my mobile yesterday so I didn't have any reads other than they didn't do anything out of line that made them stand out.



So preflop it’s straight forward and gives us a SPR of 4 on the flop, so I’m thinking as long as no A comes out or 4 card straight/flush I'm quite happy to get all-in. The flop brings a pretty dry board, and for his 3bet calling range he's either hit top pair, a set or missed without any draws. For that reason I only bet half the pot when checked to. He then min-raises which looks scary. I tank for a bit and decide my hands too strong to fold when I'm given a 5:1 odds on the call and an SPR of 4. I also think about going all-in there, but if it's a bluff with AK I want to give them the chance to continue it on the turn and not let them get away here.

The turn pairs the board, but doesn't change anything, as I can't see him ever having a single 7 in his range. He checks to me again so at this point I'm pretty sure I'm ahead and make another half pot bet for value. This is where I make a mistake as it's half my remaining stack and I should have just got it all in the middle. He then check raises me again all-in. This doesn't seem to make any sense, I can't think of any hands that would want to check raise both the flop and the turn, but maybe it's because I made the mistake of only leaving half my stack behind and they knew a call would commit them so they just put it all in there. Anyway I make the call as I had already committed myself to the pot.

So ignoring that bad betting size on turn what does everyone think?
 
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Fri Oct 26, 2012, 11:35 AM
(#2)
Kedan87's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 74
I was just thinking of other ways I could have played this. The obvious one is 3bet all-in on the flop, but I don't like this as it folds out all there bluff's and leaves me with very few hands that I beat. When he min bets I give them a range AK, KQs+, 66+. If I 3bet I think I'm only getting called by KQs+, 66-77, QQ+ which doesn't look too good. Is my ranging right here?

The other way I thought which seems very strange to me as I never bet less than half the pot, would be to bet about $0.40 on the turn when checked to. The best draw they could have when I'm beating them is AQs with 5 outs (10%), so they would still be making a -ev play be calling (17% to call), but my bet looks very weak and leaves some fold equity which could make them re-raise all-in with all of their range. I think I'm always raising on this turn for value, I don't like checking and giving them a free card even if they have very few outs, so if they are already beating me I'm losing my stack anyway.
 
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Fri Oct 26, 2012, 02:13 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Kedan,

Given the low SPR and the unknown villain, I think it's ok to commit and get it in here, but if the villain is at all reasonable I think we should be folding to the flop check-raise tbh (wish we had reads). About the only value hand we're beating is AQ and a good player is not likely to be taking this line with AQ (you also mentioned KQs, but that's even less likely and there's only 1 combo of KQs he can hold, KdQd). The min-check-raise looks a lot like a monster, so my guess is we've run into a set here.

"He then check raises me again all-in. This doesn't seem to make any sense, I can't think of any hands that would want to check raise both the flop and the turn"

I can... QQ, 77, 66.

I'm probably checking back the turn here, really not buying this action, the min-checkraise on the flop then checking the turn. It all just looks really fishy as in big hand fishy.

So it all really comes down to reads tbh... if the villain is a huge fish, a LAG spewer, etc, then for sure get it in here... that type of opponent will show up with AQ, QJ, QT, 98s, all kinds of stuff that he'll overplay. If the villain is solid, we're beat way more often than not when we get check-raised on the flop and it becomes a fairly easy fold. If the villain is an inexperienced TAG, it's less clear because they will overvalue AQ in spots like this.


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Fri Oct 26, 2012, 02:17 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kedan87 View Post
I was just thinking of other ways I could have played this. The obvious one is 3bet all-in on the flop, but I don't like this as it folds out all there bluff's and leaves me with very few hands that I beat. When he min bets I give them a range AK, KQs+, 66+. If I 3bet I think I'm only getting called by KQs+, 66-77, QQ+ which doesn't look too good. Is my ranging right here?
I think your ranging is off, can't see him ever check-raising you on the flop with AK or 88-JJ. Especially not min-checkraising, which wants a call, not trying to get folds generally, vs what you've repped as a very strong hand. KQs there's only one combo of. It really comes down to flop ranging, if he would raise/call pre and check-raise with AQ, KQ, QJs type hands, then get it in. If not, then fold. Most decent players won't check-raise AQ here since it folds out your JJ/TT/AK hands (hands AQ is beating that have only 2 or 3 outs) and only gets action from better hands.


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Fri Oct 26, 2012, 04:38 PM
(#5)
Kedan87's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 74
Thanks for your reply Dave, it shows I still have a lot to learn, which doesn't suprise me!

I've had a look at the villains stats on my HUD and it turns out I only played 4 hands with them, so they don't really say much. Over the 4 hands they have 75/25/0 so 2 calls and 1 raise out of 4 preflop looks a little fishy but it's far from a realiable read.

It turns out they had AcQc and I won the hand. But it should have been a fold to min check-raise to an unknown. I guess I still need to work on letting these premium pairs go when the action say's I'm beat.

Thanks again Dave
 

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