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thoughts on these 2 hands

thoughts on these 2 hands - Wed Oct 31, 2012, 06:55 PM
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 8
not a great deal of history on villain, he was opening around 15% utg and was generally passive post..
anyone play this differently flop and turn? bet sizing ok? bet or check river?

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Hero (Button) ($9.48)
SB ($6.25)
BB ($9.58)
UTG ($11.57)
MP ($2.83)
CO ($5.09)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, 7
UTG bets $0.15, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.15, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.37) 6, 5, 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.70, UTG calls $0.45

Turn: ($1.77) 7 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.70, UTG calls $0.70

River: ($3.17) 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ?

this one not much info on villain, i flat because the player directly behind me loved 3bet squeezing [he's 21% over about 600 hands that i have on him]
pretty much what do you do on river? what sort of range would you put him on?

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button ($14.18)
SB ($4.51)
BB ($5.36)
UTG ($5.08)
MP ($8.49)
Hero (CO) ($8.06)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K
1 fold, MP bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, 1 fold, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.50) 8, 6, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, MP calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.50) 3 (2 players)
MP bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.80, MP calls $0.70

River: ($3.10) Q (2 players)
MP bets $0.10, Hero ?
Wed Oct 31, 2012, 08:49 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,784
**moved to more appropriate forum JWK24**


In the future, it'll make it easier for everyone if you keep one hand per thread. That way, when a discussion starts about a hand, it will be easier to follow it.

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner

Thu Nov 01, 2012, 03:57 PM
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hi Noblelocks

I think for the first hand you should check the turn. We raised our draw and got called. I like to be aggressive on the flop, its definitely a fine play. But on the turn when we pick up showdown value, that is, a hand that could win at showdown if it doesn't improve any further, I would much prefer to check and hope to see that showdown or to improve further on the river. If we bet the turn we risk our opponent calling with a range that is a substantial favourite against us.

I think for the second hand if you are going to play preflop this way, three-betting is definitely an option, you should raise flop as you did. On the river you have a choice to make. Calling is not the end of the world, but we might lose some value. Raising to something like 1.50 can squeeze out that little extra value from our opponent's range. But perhaps the board has gotten too scary for him at this point that he cannot a raise with his weak one pair hands, so if you just called I wouldn't mind too much.

Let me know if this all makes sense
Thu Nov 01, 2012, 05:02 PM
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
First hand I check behind on the river, betting would be very thin value indeed.

Second hand I am definitely 3 betting pre flop, reraising the flop is fine.

The turn and river is where it gets difficult. Virtually a min raise on the turn and then he calls your raise. He makes the same bet on the river.

I heard Dave say that this type of raise is a weak player tell of a big hand and I think he is right although i have also seen them do similar with pure air.

So I will take a shot at the range: Js+ and maybe even As or a straight; if not just pure air.

I would err on the side of caution and just call the river bet.


Fri Nov 02, 2012, 01:48 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
I heard Dave say that this type of raise is a weak player tell of a big hand and I think he is right although i have also seen them do similar with pure air.
Hi Top,

Min-raising is the fish tell of a big hand... so like if the action went check, we bet ..45c and he makes the minimum raise to .90c. That would not be good news for our KK imo.

This villain isn't raising anyone, he's betting (and not min, although very small). This weak lead is often a modest 1 pair holding or a draw trying to proceed cheaply in the hand by setting a cheap price (and once in a while a strong hand trying to induce a raise, but if that's the case we'll hear from him after we do raise).

As played I favor raising his weak lead on the river. It may be somewhat thin in that it's hard for him to call with weak 1 pair hands, but I feel like we're virtually always winning anyway in this spot so not much to lose, and players who take this type of line to try and get to showdown cheaply are used to it inducing aggressive opponents into raising them with air and just calling with our exact kind of hand strength, so I do think the villain will be inclined to pay off with a weaker 1 pair hand here to snap bluffs and will certainly pay us off if he was on a draw and hit the Q to make top pair on the river. On balance I like going for that additional river value here.

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Sat Nov 03, 2012, 09:11 PM
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 8
thanks for the feedback guys..

1st one villain ended up with AKhh - i decided after he only called my re-raise on the flop he was drawing or had showdown value , and at the time i thought i'd get thin value from his heart draws and with maybe 10 outs versus the over pairs part of his range i thought it was a good idea at the time to keep juicing it up and maybe have a tad bit of fold equity as well , maybe not the best idea at 5nl

2nd one villain had A9s - i just called the river when i should of raised for thin value, i just got a brain freeze and thought he was trying to induce with TJ....

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