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Early tourney strong hands

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Early tourney strong hands - Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:10 PM
(#1)
TheYettii's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
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This question will get some ridicule, but I am by no means a beginner. I consider myself I capable amateur, and I have aspirations in the poker world. My track record proves this.


A tactic I've been toying with lately is sometimes FOLDING strong hands I am dealt within the first 5 hands of a tournament (yes, even AA, KK, and AK). Why, you ask..?

In the early part of a tounament, players are either super aggressive or ultra cautious, making the payoff for these early hands a coin flip more often than not (example below). Why risk your stack right away when some donk might draw out on you hoping to double up?

About 70% of the time (depending on position) I am dealt these hands early, I fold and watch the action to gain some information on the players...Which to me is more valuable later on in the tournament.

I have folded preflop and flopped top two pair doing this, watching players bluff with air, winning big pots. Later on, I noticed the exact same betting pattern being used. I managed to steal BIG pots as well as finally stacking out the same player in the middle stages of the tournament with the information I gained from that early hand.

I realize this is counter intuitive, but it has really been a huge weapon in my arsenal of late. I know cards will come again later on if I am patient and wait for my spots.

I have made the final table in 3 of 5 big tourneys of late (700+ players) and placed 4th, 6th and 5th... Some good cashes. I attribute 2 of those wins to this tactic, as I used the information to increase my stack at key middle stages of those tournaments, giving me the chips needed to put more pressure on opponents.


Thoughts?


Last edited by TheYettii; Thu Nov 01, 2012 at 02:22 PM..
 
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Wed Oct 31, 2012, 10:32 PM
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WeaselBasher's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,138
....the amount of times I have had an AK at the beginning of a 45 man SNG, done a 3X or 4X raise....then got all-of -a-sudden "heavily involved" by someone raising big pre, and then getting beaten by a J4 or Q3 makes me sick. eeesh

Even in a tourney, I will play the Group 1 and raise of course, but AK stinks early, I do agree..........you just have to be very careful....it's unlikely that you will see the River for free................

I am no expert, but I like your post....thought-provoking

Sorry, I didn't notice it's your first post.....Welcome !!, and keep the good posts coming

Last edited by WeaselBasher; Wed Oct 31, 2012 at 10:41 PM.. Reason: Welcome
 
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Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:06 PM
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0stanleycup0's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 17
Ive only played with play $ thus far and i would agree with your "nonplaying" the first few rounds ..Inevitably some /lots of these PM players are just horsing around at the start ,going all in with anything!I've been burnt on many occassions!I figured that sort of behavior wouldn't exist at a cash table?
Good article ...Just not sure I can ever lay down a big starter !?!?
 
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Wed Oct 31, 2012, 11:48 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
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Hi TheYettii!

Welcome to the forum. Here's a link that will help to get you familiar with some of the things that PSO has to offer.

For me, early in a tourney, it will depend on what type of tourney it is, as to how I go about those hands.
If it's a league game, especially late in the month, every one of those hands, even AA is a muck for me. There are two times that I'll muck AA. Early in a league game at the end of the month or on the bubble of a satellite.
In the league sitauation, the chips I'd gain if I win the hand would not be worth the real $$ I'd lose due to getting knocked out. In a satty, the one and only goal is to get a ticket, so as soon as I get enough chips to get the ticket, I'm folding everything, regardless, as I've got absolutely nothing to gain, but the ticket to lose.

AK all-in preflop, early, is something that I won't do. It's not a made hand. KK, in a cash tourney, I'll play preflop early. It is a made hand and I hope that since there are enough players that will play any A, that their outs counterfeit each other.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having patience. It's an absolute necessity to be a long term winning player.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Nov 01, 2012, 12:50 AM
(#5)
TheYettii's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi TheYettii!

AK all-in preflop, early, is something that I won't do. It's not a made hand. KK, in a cash tourney, I'll play preflop early. It is a made hand and I hope that since there are enough players that will play any A, that their outs counterfeit each other.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having patience. It's an absolute necessity to be a long term winning player.


John (JWK24)
Now THAT is some great advice to remember as well... KK early on is indeed a deceptively powerful hand. I never considered that most players will play any A to try and win a quick early showdown, thereby counterfeiting each other.

As I said, I don't always fold those early top tier starting hands... There are situations to play them in if you have a good read on your opponents!
 
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Thu Nov 01, 2012, 01:09 AM
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TheYettii's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0stanleycup0 View Post
Ive only played with play $ thus far and i would agree with your "nonplaying" the first few rounds ..Inevitably some /lots of these PM players are just horsing around at the start ,going all in with anything!I've been burnt on many occassions!I figured that sort of behavior wouldn't exist at a cash table?
Good article ...Just not sure I can ever lay down a big starter !?!?

On actual cash table games, no... You don't often get people shoving with any two cards unless they are short stacked and on tilt. The only other times I see this happen are at live tables in Casinos on the weekend. some drunk hee-haw will come and sit down, and make crazy preflop raises 15 out of their first 20 hands in a row. They are hoping to hit and run, taking a cool $200 of your money with them. PUNISH THESE FOOLS, control the pot, and force them to play YOUR game. They won't stick around for you to take it back from them if you get sucked into their world.

In any tourney, however... This happens ALL THE TIME. Unless it's a small SNG (like 18 players or less). There's more respect there... Unless you have one guy with a big bankroll who decided on slumming it in the $60 buy in (Ahem.... ICANTSING, I'm talking to YOU! ), then you might get a guy willing to shove with anything early just to get a leg up.

Last edited by TheYettii; Thu Nov 01, 2012 at 07:13 AM..
 
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Thu Nov 01, 2012, 01:24 PM
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TheYettii's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
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Just to give evidence to my strategy... JUST played a $60 18 man SNG where I was dealt JJ in hand #6.

I decided to play it by reraising 3 limpers @ $30 bb to $240 from the CUT-OFF seat.

Got 2 callers, Flop comes down Jd4s7c. UTG goes insta all in, and I call with no immediate flush draw or realistic str8 danger.

Our cards turn over, he has Qd8d... I'm a MASSIVE favourite.

He goes runner runner for the flush, and I go out in 17th place.

Further validating my stance on NOT playing these hands early. Donks.



Last edited by TheYettii; Thu Nov 01, 2012 at 02:17 PM..
 
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Fri Nov 02, 2012, 02:15 AM
(#8)
opium.nT's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 97
Some thought provoking sentences indeed. My 2 cents:

imo, AK is only worth risking your whole stack when your M is low, and worth risking a part of it if you are heads up a villain you have good reads on, and the stacks are deep enough to give you enough maneuverability postflop.

Can’t see a reason to fold AA against an early stage shove, again if it’s not a multiway pot. As we all know, premium pairs decrease dramatically in equity against 3 and more opps. But that situation suits some freeroll more than a cash SNG you are normally playing, I guess.

Later in the tourney one should be concerned about his ICM much more, and this is a spot where even AA could be a fold.

The hand where you had a set of jacks doesn’t illustrate the strategy, imo. That’s just bad luck in a nice spot.
 

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