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10NL 6 Max vs Donk

10NL 6 Max vs Donk - Fri Nov 02, 2012, 04:15 AM
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Villain was playing 40/20 over 35 hands. One notable read I had was that previously when he was shortstacked, he 3bet a TAG with AJo, flop he cbet n called TAG's shove as 2 overcards. TAG won with flush draw. Then he reloaded.

This hand was the first time out of 5 he donkbet. I was thinking hard whether to call the river.

Is this call +EV in the long run? Against most decent players I would fold. But against this villain type who seems fishy and may overvalue hands, I called.
Fri Nov 02, 2012, 11:13 AM
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
For me 35 hands is usually enough of a sample to get a guide on a player's tendencies but I really feel more comfortable when I can define that further i.e.what is his calling range to a 3X open out of position, what will he donk into the flop; with any part of the board or has it been stronger, flush draw etc etc? What is he firing a 2nd and 3rd barrel on? Is it complete air, a pair or something stronger?

Without it being well defined, three barrels of over half pot bets looks pretty strong and not like a bluff unless he is a complete maniac and here it seems he wants you to call as they look like value bets. I would have expected a bigger bet with a bluff to be honest. Maybe he thinks you have AK because you played the hand passively throughout?

If he is playing this way with an overvalued two pair or less, then I would add him to my friends' list

I hope it turned out that he was a maniac


Sat Nov 03, 2012, 05:57 PM
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey TheAwesome

I think going call-call-call in this spot is going to be +EV. He only has to be betting the river with a) worse made hands like QX, KK, JJ, TT or b) bluffing the million possible draws, KT, KJ, JT, T8, XYss, a small amount of the time for us to be good given our price. If he got lucky with T9 or had flopped bottom set I still think you played it right and that this will be a +EV call.

But was there a better way to play this spot? I think so. I think we could definitely raise the turn for value, about 3x his bet. If this player type came over the top I would probably credit him with two pair or better and release my hand. But what I expect to happen a lot, as in an overwhelming amount of the time, is for him to call and play the river oop. We can then decide to value shove and/or check back depending on the river.

I think with all those hands listed above that we beat he can call our turn raise and we should expect him to. This way we ensure we get even more money in when we are ahead. On the rare occasion he will three-bet the turn all-in and I think the great majority of those times he has us crushed.

These players are always tricky but it sounds like he has stationy tendencies so we need to keep that in mind and take advantage!
Sat Nov 03, 2012, 09:10 PM
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Hmm turns out he's really a fish and, held QTo. Means he donkbet me 3 streets with TPWK. I had wanted to raise the turn but was afraid it would inflate the pot against a stronger hand.

I've got a mixed share of people donking with the nuts and those donking with one pair or a draw. So it really confuses me what they have.

I definitely would have taken villain's line if I held 2 pairs or a set, leading out and hoping to be raised. Max value and protection from flush draw.

So how do you guys identify which villain type takes this line with a strong hand?? Donkbets make me sick

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