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Colour coding - common sense Y or N?

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Colour coding - common sense Y or N? - Sun Nov 04, 2012, 06:05 AM
(#1)
CptKevUK's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 96
I've changed things around a little from the original post and copied my blog text here, this is it.....

CC of email sent to Head Coach Dave the Langolier and 'ideas' at PSO Admin.

Hi Dave and all PSO admin folk and all PSO users too, how's tricks?

I'd like to make a suggestion that I think would make sense for PSO if not all of online poker in general. Namely that all PSO instructors use the same colour coding for opponents, and it would follow therefore that all us PSO users start to do the same thing.

I fully understand that at present colour coding is currently based on personal preference throughout online poker, not just at PSO. But it strikes me that this is not really very sensible or necessary and it would be great if it were not the case. Colour coding could become a language just like 'nit', 'loose passive', 'TAG' etc. is a fully understood language throughout all forms of poker. Why can't we instigate a colour language for online poker that is understood by the whole 'world' just like trafic lights are understood by motorists from all five continents (even when there are minor differences from country to country)?!

Personally I'd be happy to change my coding despite the tricky transition period this would present. PSO pros that have had their own personal system for a long time might be a little less willing, I get that, but hopefully that doesn't mean that it is an unachievable notion.

I'd choose Dave's colour coding scheme used in his Deep MTT series recently as I trust he has given the system some thought and it would be as good a place as any to start. Also, it uses several colours rather than just 3 or 4 and so has nicely defined sub divisions. It would be great to get to a point where we can call a TAG player a 'red' player and all understand. Or more importantly see a red player on a Langolier session, a Ahar or an Xflix session and instantly know what that means. Obv right?!

OK, so maybe encouraging the whole online poker community to adopt a standard system is a little ambitious, but hey, why not?! Online poker is still relatively 'young'. Let's at least try and create a situation where we all end up driving on the same side of the road. Surely, we can at the very least all drive on the same side of the road within our fantastic community here in PSO land.

I'll post this email in my blog and in the forum too to see what response it gets. I for one will start to use Dave's colour coding system forthwith (any tweaks or changes Dave before this snowball gets rolling downhill, might be the last chance you ever get lol!!). Is there any way of creating a poll where we can get votes from instructors and users alike to gauge if folk think the considerable effort and focus this suggestion would require is worthwhile?

Just an idea at this stage. But it seems like a good one to me

K.

Last edited by CptKevUK; Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 09:24 AM..
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 06:19 AM
(#2)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
The link isn't bringing me to your blog. Perhaps it hasn't been reviewed yet?

Stupid having to review them anyway as you can type anything you want on the forum, if it offends then it's edited.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 06:46 AM
(#3)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,027
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptKevUK View Post
Hi all.
Please take a minute to read my latest blog post and vote by commenting on it.
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blogs/post/?id=34903
Cheers, K.
Certainly a great topic for discussion ... I use a system similar to Daves ... neat idea

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 06:53 AM
(#4)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Working now.

I don't really get your point

I colour code for my own benefit, not others.

I only colour code for pre flop play (Limit STTs)

Orange for loose aggressive
Green for loose passive
Magenta for tight passive
Red for tight aggressive

I don't colour code for after the flop but I use HEM stats when I need them. Colour coding gives me an instant read on a player before HEM kicks in when the game starts.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 07:28 AM
(#5)
CptKevUK's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post
Working now.

I don't really get your point

I colour code for my own benefit, not others.

I only colour code for pre flop play (Limit STTs)

Orange for loose aggressive
Green for loose passive
Magenta for tight passive
Red for tight aggressive

I don't colour code for after the flop but I use HEM stats when I need them. Colour coding gives me an instant read on a player before HEM kicks in when the game starts.
Thanks for your comment.

Essentially my point is what is the benefit of not standardising colour codes?

We all use colour codes for our own benefit, so why don't we all use the same colour to mean the same thing so that we are all using the same language at those times when colour coding becomes a topic within a strategy discussion.

The main problem is for me as a keen PSO user that the trainers also all have their own systems, which within the bubble of their own games or even training sessions is fine. But they are trainers being observed by keen students like me.

So, one minute I'm watching Dave who has one code and then the next Chris who has a completely different code to mean exactly the same thing!! I have to go through mental gymnastics to work out which means what.

Also as visual hand sharing tools like BOOM become more standard there may be instances when sharing hands that we want to disclose the reads we have on the other people at the table. Standardisation would facilitate this in the future when the technology catches up. Clearly we wouldn't always want to give away that info.

It just seems eminently sensible to me that if we are going to use codes that we all use the same colours to mean the same things. Then, maybe, out of that benefits will come that we can't currently imagine because we all operate in our own isolated little bubbles.

K.

Last edited by CptKevUK; Sun Nov 04, 2012 at 07:41 AM..
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 07:37 AM
(#6)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Poker is not an exact science, there's no right or wrong way to play. I've been accused of being a rock but that's just the image I like to portray. I can steal a lot more and I can and do change gears. It works for me but I know other players that give a maniac image that works for them. If we all conformed to the same way then nobody would win in this game.

I suppose you do have a point for trainers to standardise things but I would suggest that anyone taking these lessons to use their own brains and not just take a trainers word verbatim. I have my own set of colour codes that works for me but it's just one small part in my own cog that helps my game. My own green coding doesn't mean that a player won't raise with 73o, it just means he's unlikely to raise with it.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 08:05 AM
(#7)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
I can see the need for uniformity when teachers use it as a training aid. As you noted, having two different colors mean the same thing is counterproductive. However, I'll stop there by emphasizing the words "as a training aid."

Color coding is a personal aid. If there is one color you can remember or associate with a particular style, than that color is yours. It makes little sense to establish a uniform code outside the training venue.

Additionally, your game will affect your designations. Ring is different from Zoom, which is different from STT, which is different from MTT, which is unlike SNG, or League. To try and shoehorn one color pattern for everyone may actually turn such things counterproductive.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 08:09 AM
(#8)
CptKevUK's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 96
That's all fine, and I don't disagree. But, it doesn't negate the idea of having a code and those that want to use it can use it.

My belief is that in future there would be fewer and fewer people going their own way as I'm not sure there will be sufficient benefit. But that is just my thoughts.

But of course, I'm not talking about creating a law here, just a code.

:-)
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 08:26 AM
(#9)
CptKevUK's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptKevUK View Post
That's all fine, and I don't disagree. But, it doesn't negate the idea of having a code and those that want to use it can use it.

My belief is that in future there would be fewer and fewer people going their own way as I'm not sure there will be sufficient benefit. But that is just my thoughts.

But of course, I'm not talking about creating a law here, just a code.

:-)
Actually, on reflection, to a certain extent Cairn I do disagree!

I get your points and I hear what you are saying and it's great to discuss this topic.

I think most poker players would agree that there are four main player styles LP, LA, TP and TA. Assigning colours to those player types would surely be beneficial in the long run. As poker develops and training changes and aids evolve I feel it has to make sense to at least have a system 'out there' that is recognised as sensible.

Now there are lots of remaining personal tweaks and colours than one can use. Or even use an entirely different colour coding system yourself, but at least when conversing with other players there is a standardised system that one can use that is widely understood.

This is, at the moment at least, purely a topic generated by watching multiple training videos from multiple trainers and the need for a system than can be adopted when a system is required.

At the moment there isn't a system. All I'm suggesting is let's create one.

K.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 08:34 AM
(#10)
TheAwesomeNW's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 474
Hmm good idea. Points to consider are how do we define TAG, LAG, ABC, Nit, TP, LP, maniac, etc. One's understanding of maniac could be different to another's.

Personally, I like to use one specific colour for maniacs who go all in preflop with trash so that when I see that colour on the lobby, I'll prioritise the table. But it might not be the habit of many people. Some like to colour code regulars whereas others don't.

There're quite a few combinations in terms of profiling because poker is a dynamic and people's game. We colour code for exploitation and convenience purposes. For very very general profiling (like the 4 basic types of players, namely TAG, LAG, TP, LP) this is a definitely good idea. But for more detailed villain types, this will be an uphill task
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 08:41 AM
(#11)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
One's understanding of maniac could be different to another's.


I totally agree. I colour code players in relation to how I play and as I play limit there are a lot more loose aggressive and loose passives compared to tight passives and tight aggressives.

When I play NL or Omaha I do notice a change in player types (I still code them)
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 08:44 AM
(#12)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
This is interesting - a nice idea to think about.

It could be a very good tool for new members at PSO, to start them off using colour coding in a useful and regular way that they could then develop as they grew more experienced.

It would certainly help to reduce confusion in training sessions where different trainers use 'red' as opposite meanings - either a warning 'stop think' traffic light for good opponents or as red = bleed this player dry...

I recently revamped my entire colour coding/note taking - streamlined it and made it simpler and faster to read - but I still have my own tweaks.

For instance - if I have ever played you at the PSO Premier League tables your colour code is orange - regardless of your style.

This does not help me when I play a PSO Premier League game, as everybody at the table is orange!

But if I see an orange player at a cash table, sitngo or regular MTT I immediately know they are a PSOer and also to be wary of my HUD stats - as they will be skewed by the large number/proportion of hands recorded at PSO League games, where players do not always play their standard game.

And all the trainers here are red - my usual colour code for TAG - even if they are really closer to LAGs, - because I always check the red coloured players at a new table first and I spot them more quickly. (I usually have the avatars turned off so I don't always immediately recognise PSOers at my tables.)

Interesting idea - wonder what the trainers will think.

Ed
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 08:51 AM
(#13)
CptKevUK's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAwesomeNW View Post
Hmm good idea. Points to consider are how do we define TAG, LAG, ABC, Nit, TP, LP, maniac, etc. One's understanding of maniac could be different to another's.

Personally, I like to use one specific colour for maniacs who go all in preflop with trash so that when I see that colour on the lobby, I'll prioritise the table. But it might not be the habit of many people. Some like to colour code regulars whereas others don't.

There're quite a few combinations in terms of profiling because poker is a dynamic and people's game. We colour code for exploitation and convenience purposes. For very very general profiling (like the 4 basic types of players, namely TAG, LAG, TP, LP) this is a definitely good idea. But for more detailed villain types, this will be an uphill task
Absolutely. Being definitive in poker at any stages is not going to work me thinks. This code is a basic guide.

My guess is that we all use colour coding similarly - it's a quick visual guide at the start of a hand, particularly when multi tabling (cash or tournis) and in Zoom (Rush is coming back soon too don't forget!!), to give us a steer on who we are up against and to aid our initial thoughts in the hand.

I think the idea of defining what the four (and more) types are for the purposes of the code would be a really good idea. Now your own personal version of TA or LP might be a little different but at least if you see a player tagged as red in a situation where the code is being openly used you will know what red specifically relates to in that instance.

I'll have to ask Dave the Langolier if he would be willing to help me with this. If there is going to be a code I guess it needs to have a name, like all languages do, and a specific range of definable terms or will not be much use.

Good point, thanks for your comments.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 09:05 AM
(#14)
CptKevUK's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
This is interesting - a nice idea to think about.

It could be a very good tool for new members at PSO, to start them off using colour coding in a useful and regular way that they could then develop as they grew more experienced.

It would certainly help to reduce confusion in training sessions where different trainers use 'red' as opposite meanings - either a warning 'stop think' traffic light for good opponents or as red = bleed this player dry...

I recently revamped my entire colour coding/note taking - streamlined it and made it simpler and faster to read - but I still have my own tweaks.

For instance - if I have ever played you at the PSO Premier League tables your colour code is orange - regardless of your style.

This does not help me when I play a PSO Premier League game, as everybody at the table is orange!

But if I see an orange player at a cash table, sitngo or regular MTT I immediately know they are a PSOer and also to be wary of my HUD stats - as they will be skewed by the large number/proportion of hands recorded at PSO League games, where players do not always play their standard game.

And all the trainers here are red - my usual colour code for TAG - even if they are really closer to LAGs, - because I always check the red coloured players at a new table first and I spot them more quickly. (I usually have the avatars turned off so I don't always immediately recognise PSOers at my tables.)

Interesting idea - wonder what the trainers will think.

Ed
Hi Ed. Good stuff, nice to hear your comments.

As responses come in I'm beginning to think that the course of action should be that 'we' create a code, by we I mean those of that think it is a good idea, and give it a name and a range of specifics for each element we decide to include. Then at least there is a code out there that can be used in situations where a code is useful.

So, if that's what we are going to do then I guess we need to start thinking about what we don't want in the code, as if it became too complex then I'm sure it wouldn't be helpful.

I'm really hoping that Dave the Langolier thinks this concept has merit and that we can adopt the system he uses (maybe call it the LangoCode?!). All that we would need to do is put some specific numbers next to each colour and make it known what those are.

How any player uses any information in poker is their choice, but the more clear and concise information one has surely it's a good thing?

Encouraging other trainers to adopt a new system might take a little time, especially if they need to invert their axis as it were, from red meaning 'go' to red meaning 'stop' like you say. But that's the whole point of this discussion in the first place.

K.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 09:53 AM
(#15)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I have to disagree

I have my own colors, which I'm sure are different than others. But I think what's important is the notes you have attached to the player. Colors don't mean much if you don't have notes

For myself. I've been using my colors for over 2 years and I ain't going to change.

BUT, I see your point for the trainers, BUT again, go to any school and all teachers have their own way to teach the same subject.

Just my 2 cents
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 10:17 AM
(#16)
CptKevUK's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
I have to disagree

I have my own colors, which I'm sure are different than others. But I think what's important is the notes you have attached to the player. Colors don't mean much if you don't have notes

For myself. I've been using my colors for over 2 years and I ain't going to change.

BUT, I see your point for the trainers, BUT again, go to any school and all teachers have their own way to teach the same subject.

Just my 2 cents
Hi there. Good to hear your response.

We all have our own colours that's fine and dandy. What I'm talking about is creating a code where there are a set of colours with a set of associated values so that at least there is a code that can be used in a situation where that would be helpful.

This doesn't change anything that is already in place at the moment but it does mean that in situations where clarity is desirable then there is a system in place that can be used.

In a training session that you are involved in with for example, where all the colours used are different from your own you will be able to look at the 'key' for the colours being used by the trainer in that particular session and know what the colours mean in that context. This has no bearing on the colours you use yourself.

Surely that has to be beneficial. If it is a system that becomes widely adopted over time then all to the good, but let's at least start the process within PSO so that all the trainers are using the same code as a starting point to aid clarity.

It's not like colour tags are particularly definitive anyway (or that anything in poker for that matter) they are just a guide at the start of the hand.

Cheers K.
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 10:35 AM
(#17)
PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
For training purpose it's a good idea as not to confuse everyone on what they are trying to explain especially the new you just started attending the training and also to make the training run smooth as less interruption.

For me i color code regulars with red and weak players with yellow. All PSO'ers is blue color

Good idea
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 10:51 AM
(#18)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Captain,

You have a very good point for the newbies

PSO should have in their course and as aid, some type of color coding for new comers or players who want to learn. For example:

Light Blue: FISH (loose player)
Plays often, Limps every time, calls often, 60% range

Red: IDIOT (extremely aggressive)
Plays often, ATC, All in

Then the trainers should use the PSO colors in their trainning
 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 10:59 AM
(#19)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
omgosh ... I just logged into 2+2 and look who was there too

 
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Sun Nov 04, 2012, 11:05 AM
(#20)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I posted on the Pokercast forum earlier, was it me? Do I get a medal
 

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