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5nl 6max zoom - Q8s in the bb, flop a flush with 4 others in the pot - what now?

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5nl 6max zoom - Q8s in the bb, flop a flush with 4 others in the pot - what now? - Sun Nov 04, 2012, 12:56 PM
(#1)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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My mind was swirling! And I had to resist the urge to just sit there thinking 'omg - squee!' like I always do, and try to remember all the stuff we learned in live training. But it's all so new :/

I wasn't sure if I was supposed to try to keep both players in when my raise got reraised and a 3rd person called behind? And so I had my mouse on the bet slider going up and down trying to decide on amount that I thought the c/o would call, and then you know what I noticed his stats and started to worry that maybe my flush might not even be good because the c/o is super-tight:






Question 1 - what sort of bet sizing should I have made?


Also, I kinda forgot to range people But if I had, I would have maybe put them on hands like AcT or Ac with another over, 2pr or a set (in addition to possibly a better flush?). So ...

Question 2 - was that too conservative a range for a table of limpers?


Hope everybody's having a nice weekend!!
 
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Mon Nov 05, 2012, 11:27 AM
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GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey TrustySam

I think this is a pretty interesting spot. I am reading your HUD as having 40 hands on the CO so if that's not true let me know.

I think there are two ways for us to play it after we see the raise and call infront of our lead. I like your lead at the pot . Good job with that!

We have a few conflicting factors.

Factors in favour of fast playing:

- we are out of position (boo.... hiss)
- cards that kill our action or give us an inferior holding could come (board pair, another club)
- 3 way we give 2 people the opportunity to draw out or get away, not just 1

Factors in favour of just calling:

- the raiser doesn't have much money behind them
- the cold caller might not continue versus our flop three-bet with worse ie he might heroically fold JcJx QcQx and AcX type hands. Though, he is probably never folding a set.

Here is my favourite reason to call, the order of the stacks. If we call and we get a favourable blank card (any non club, non board pair), then we can check, and expect the short stacked raiser to move all-in, leaving the action on the cold caller. He is likely going to at least call (or raise). Either way after that we can spring into action and trap him in the pot with our flush.

This is going to be a more risky maneuver. One the short stacked player might not shove the turn. Two we might get one of those bad cards. Three, as per one, we could see a river out of position three-way.

The easy and +EV way is definitely to three-bet the flop for value. We solve a lot of problems this way and don't create many. But if you are up for the challenge and adventure, a bit more money might be made with a call
 
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Mon Nov 05, 2012, 05:53 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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ok, ty
 
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Mon Nov 05, 2012, 09:39 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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99% of the time I just leave the results in the replayer because it doesn't usually matter for the questions I've been asking. But I feel like this time, maybe the results compromised the analysis?

Because utg+1 made it seem like I'm playing against a pack of muppets:




But in the moment, this was what I was envisioning everybody as holding:




Not that I was even estimating pot odds in the moment since I wasn't even ranging - but I just have that thing in my mind about all hands having less equity in multi-way pots, which is why I guess I wasn't eager to slowplay after the reraise?

Although, when I was in that phase of being really into looking at draw-heavy multi-way pots, I was surprised at how oftentimes at least one person is dominated and has practically zero equity (like with a flush over flush).

So ... I don't know :/ I thought my reraise was super-weird though because it was kind of pot-committing ... like I don't even know what I was looking for - what was I going to do if I got put all-in by the big stack ... did I even want that? Or was I hoping for a fold? I don't even know ...

Yeah, the overcaller had the 40 hands, with the VPP of 9% - I guess that's a pretty small sample size, eh?


Oh, I don't know ... mehhhhh .....


Anyways, thanks so much for the ideas Gareth - and wtg with the big grind on the weekend ... the photo's not showing for me in your blog, but it sounds like it was an epic grind ... WOW!!!


 
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Mon Nov 05, 2012, 10:14 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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As soon as i hear an interesting idea, I just have to go try it - thankfully your ideas are very good Gareth!! $$!!!

So I was able to do the 'don't let up on the gas thing' by raising the flop and turn, which made it easier to get the money in the middle on the river.

And then I just called the reraise on the flop like you suggested above:




The funniest part is that after I made my river raise, the button wrote this in chat ...

Quote:
*** RIVER *** [Qh 6c Ad As] [8s]
TrustySam: bets $2.15
dawson275 said, "i have the A"
dawson275: calls $2.02 and is all-in
... like they were sure they had it or something? But I guess just calling their reraise must have confused them or something?


That worked out great
 

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