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Poker does your head in

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Poker does your head in - Wed Nov 07, 2012, 04:03 AM
(#1)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
This is the latest in a neverending run of horrible beats - and believe me there are alot of them - but i had to post this because i can see no other way of playing this hand on the flop .

18 player $1.50 SnG Heads Up

Villain had been a calling station throughout and was playing any Ax hand , calling pot size bets on the flop then turn with top pair / no kicker and no draw .

In this hand although i am OOP , i decide to call his min raise to see a flop . When the flop comes A high I know he has a weak ace , as he bets bigger with stronger hands , AK /AQ and high pairs . I decide to check as I expect him to bet his aces here and i can go for the check raise . With my stack size i think the only raise is an all in . OK I could be up against a flush draw or a set or 2 pair but I cant really put villain on any of these type of hands from what i know of him .

He calls with the weak ace and WHAM . THis is getting beyond belief .

Have not won a flip with AK since May , and I am still constantly losing with AA vs hands like AK /AQ/AJ when all in before the flop .




Poker Stars $1.29+$0.21 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t300/t600 Blinds + t50 - 2 players


Hero (BB): t7493 M = 7.49
BTN/SB: t19507 M = 19.51

Pre Flop: (t1000) Hero is BB with T :club: K :heart:
BTN/SB raises to t1200, Hero calls t600

Flop: (t2500) A :heart: Q :club: J :club: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t1200, Hero raises to t6243 all in, BTN/SB calls t5043

Turn: (t14986) 5 :diamond: (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t14986) A :club: (2 players - 1 is all in)

Last edited by bearxing; Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 10:44 AM.. Reason: unacceptable link
 
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Wed Nov 07, 2012, 09:43 AM
(#2)
ChewMe1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 574
Hey frasierbeams

I wouldn't be concerned on how you played this hand post flop as check shoving it in villains face is fine.

It's pre flop that we ought to be concerned with. With just a 12 bb stack, flat calling his button raise is a BIG leak that we need to fix. We want to be folding or shoving this hand preflop, flat calling is the worst option of the 3.

Most of the time we will miss the flop and check fold.... and the times we do hit the flop we can be behind/outkicked.... if we hit middle pair we are going to be forced to play it for stacks a lot of the time as we have such little room for post flop play as our stack is so small.

Hope this helps cheers, Chris.
 
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Wed Nov 07, 2012, 12:56 PM
(#3)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by frasierbeams View Post

Have not won a flip with AK since May , and I am still constantly losing with AA vs hands like AK /AQ/AJ when all in before the flop .

Well I thought the last month for me was bad enough that I hardly played at all and decided to see if my luck had changed today. If anything it has got worse, I am losing to A6 like nobody's business, and three times in the same tourney is the record so far. I could not find the 3rd one though

I am not one to usually cry about bad beats or suck outs but these three in one tourney is ridiculous considering the player reads.



The three players to my left were Nits, the first two never bet the whole tourney and called even with As or Ks and the third only bet good hands.

I had been stealing with air but felt a limp with QJx had good equity and flops well. I donk out on the best flop I could expect and hit the nuts on the turn. Stick in a big bet on the turn knowing he will call with any part and he hits one of the three Js to split.



Villain 2 three Xs any A and it is a no brainer call.



Villian 5,6 and 7 were still the same players as in the first hand and I had been shoving to steal the blinds with a wide range and 2X ing my value hands. Villian 7 had just lost a big hand to villian 6 by overplaying and shoving Jacks UTG and was called with KQx.

Normally I would shove here but I saw value in 2X. As soon as the flush draw flopped I knew I was dead.

I think it is time to give up for another month

Cheers,

TC
 
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Wed Nov 07, 2012, 04:29 PM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
I 100% agree with ChewMe1 here frasier.

Yeah you took a horrific beat here,no argument. But calling OOP with an M of 7 is going to cost you a lot more money over time than the bad beats ever will. Would it have changed the outcome with this player,as you have described them,to just jam it in there face pre-flop? Probably not,but as a hard and fast rule a shove or a fold is a much better path than calling in this spot.
 
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Wed Nov 07, 2012, 04:37 PM
(#5)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
sorry...thought you were talking aboot something else...hiccup

cheers
 
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Wed Nov 07, 2012, 05:18 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
**moved to more appropriate forum since the HA is done JWK24**


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Nov 07, 2012, 06:38 PM
(#7)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
ahhh a discussion that I feel is right up my street.

Bad beats, how do we actually determine what a bad beat is?

Yes fair enough... the pre-flop maths favours us at times, but going all in preflop with ace king, or any other big ace is poker suicide and a complete gamble.

AK for example against A7,

its the king playing against the 7 with possibly the same number off outs.

Where as pocket 8s would of been a more favourable hand to play for example on a all in.

True variance is not only the cards but also the skill level off opponents, a lesser player for example creates more table variance and are likely to get lucky.

These players should be sniped off waiting for the aces or huge pairs.

Low level buyins poker will see far more variance than the higher buyins as players respectably fold.

But also players at higher levels will reraise and play poker and not play bingo as all in pre is bingo.
Regardless of reads.

Sometimes you have to gamble, some times you dont,

I seem to lose to all in action preflop, but if i think about how many have i won, and the stats would probably say more than i lost.

I agree fraiser it does my ed in, drives me mad at times, but with focus and calm am holding my own ,not reloading and staying around the even mark so alls gd.
 
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Wed Nov 07, 2012, 06:58 PM
(#8)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
ahhh a discussion that I feel is right up my street.

Bad beats, how do we actually determine what a bad beat is?

Yes fair enough... the pre-flop maths favours us at times, but going all in preflop with ace king, or any other big ace is poker suicide and a complete gamble.

AK for example against A7,

its the king playing against the 7 with possibly the same number off outs.

Where as pocket 8s would of been a more favourable hand to play for example on a all in.

True variance is not only the cards but also the skill level off opponents, a lesser player for example creates more table variance and are likely to get lucky.

These players should be sniped off waiting for the aces or huge pairs.

Low level buyins poker will see far more variance than the higher buyins as players respectably fold.

But also players at higher levels will reraise and play poker and not play bingo as all in pre is bingo.
Regardless of reads.

Sometimes you have to gamble, some times you dont,

I seem to lose to all in action preflop, but if i think about how many have i won, and the stats would probably say more than i lost.

I agree fraiser it does my ed in, drives me mad at times, but with focus and calm am holding my own ,not reloading and staying around the even mark so alls gd.
AK v A7 is a dominating hand

yes - both have an equal chance of hitting the kicker

so sometimes the 7 hits and beats the AK - tough but standard

sometimes they both hit - the K and the 7 - so the AK wins

sometimes neither hits so the AK wins

and the AK has a higher frequency of making the straight than a totally unconnected A7
maybe you picked a bad example

we all suffer the bad beats - I just hope I live long enough for the statisticals to even out

but you are right -- it does my ed in too

Ed
 
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Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:53 AM
(#9)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
Had to post this too .

I was in the casino on Wednesday night and we were playing NLHE/Omaha cash ; one round of each .

this was from an Omaha hand .

stakes 25/50 5 handed (at the time )

Early position raise to £2.50
1 caller
I am on the button look at my cards As Ah Kd Qd so i call
both clinds call too .

£12.50 in the pot before the flop

Flop comes Ad 8d 6d

utg bets £6.50

player 2 calls

I have the nuts at this point , with a draw to the full house or quads so I call .

Small blind calls , big blind folds .

£32 in the pot

turn card 2c

utg bets £6.50 again

player 2 folds I raise to £17

Small blind folds , utg calls .

I still have the nuts at this point

£64 in the pot

river card 2s

utg bets £25 ; I reraise all in my last £48 , utg calls and shows quad 2s .

He had bet the flop with 9 high flush !!!!! and got 3 callers ; then bets the turn and calls the raise because as he said afterwards ' oh I had the 2s to go with my flush '

His starting hand was 9d 2d 3c 5s .

He played the hand horribly throughout and was very very very lucky to hit exactly the two running cards he needed to win the hand .


I do suffer from a lot of bad beats ; this is just the latest and probably worst of them all .
 
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Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:55 AM
(#10)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
Had to post this too .

I was in the casino on Wednesday night and we were playing NLHE/Omaha cash ; one round of each .

this was from an Omaha hand .

stakes 25/50 5 handed (at the time )

Early position raise to £2.50
1 caller
I am on the button look at my cards As Ah Kd Qd so i call
both clinds call too .

£12.50 in the pot before the flop

Flop comes Ad 8d 6d

utg bets £6.50

player 2 calls

I have the nuts at this point , with a draw to the full house or quads so I call .

Small blind calls , big blind folds .

£32 in the pot

turn card 2c

utg bets £6.50 again

player 2 folds I raise to £17

Small blind folds , utg calls .

I still have the nuts at this point

£64 in the pot

river card 2s

utg bets £25 ; I reraise all in my last £48 , utg calls and shows quad 2s .

He had bet the flop with 9 high flush !!!!! and got 3 callers ; then bets the turn and calls the raise because as he said afterwards ' oh I had the 2s to go with my flush '

His starting hand was 9d 2d 2h 5s .

He played the hand horribly throughout and was very very very lucky to hit exactly the two running cards he needed to win the hand .


I do suffer from a lot of bad beats ; this is just the latest and probably worst of them all .

Last edited by frasierbeams; Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 03:58 AM..
 
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Fri Nov 16, 2012, 07:05 PM
(#11)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
edited

Last edited by Sandtrap777; Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 07:08 PM..
 
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so sick of this s>>t - Thu Dec 06, 2012, 11:26 AM
(#12)
masteray1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
 
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Thu Dec 06, 2012, 11:41 AM
(#13)
masteray1's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
Y is always a russuis who enters a hand like this n which he shouldnt of had n they always win no matter what... no this is getting very much so out of hand n players like this fkn make me sick n simply have no respect for other players n for this game... this player shuv a few hadns befor this n i had poket JJ n ther was 2callers n so i folded n the floop was KJ4 N turn was 7 n river was 7. that gave me the full house n the best hand but i folded cause it was the right choice to make, so i folded jhonny for his big AQ...But what i can't understand is y is it when i make the right choice n im never creditd for it. Its fkn sad to see these idiots yes idiot winning all the time... i have many more hands but they r on boom site.. But all n all iits just not right letting this player get paid off n a stuppid hand like that..
 

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