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25NL 6-Max river the nuts - bet small/medium or large?

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25NL 6-Max river the nuts - bet small/medium or large? - Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:10 PM
(#1)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I make a completion call in the SB and hit big flop and turn a flush draw to add to the trip Kings

I am a little worried when I get called twice on the smallish flop and turn bets - about utg limper possibly having KJ/KQ/55/44 - until I hit the nuts on the river

What size should I bet the river?

Or should I have bet bigger on the flop/turn?



Ed

Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 06:15 PM..
 
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Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:15 PM
(#2)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I'm half betting or over betting that river Ed. Depends on my opponent.
 
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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:12 AM
(#3)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
The villain here could also have K5 or K4. You have the nuts. You have given no reads but he looks as if he would call a half pot bet or more. For this reason I am inclined to shove as he may think you are trying to push him off the better hand and you stand to get way more value than a half pot bet.

I think the flop bet is fine but the turn bet is a bit small in my opinion. I would have kept the same sizing as my flop bet.

Nice win whatever happens though and I assume it was zoom.

Cheers,

TC
 
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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:44 AM
(#4)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hi Ed

I think you took a nice line up to this point, bet/bet. We've seen the opponent limp into the pot so we should be thinking he's pretty passive and not going to build a pot for us.

I agree with topcat's point about turn sizing. This is a spot where we can build an even bigger pot on the river than we did and that our opponent is still going to call with a wide variety of hands facing a bet size of 1.40 as opposed to 0.75. Let's say we get that 65c in on the turn, each, that we wouldn't have otherwise. Then we have 1.30 more on the river and a half pot sized bet is even bigger!

Pots are like snowballs running down a hill and when you flop in this way in a limped pot you want to make sure it picks up enough steam to flatten a small town.

On the river actually I think the posters have already answered all the questions! We can choose between a half pot size, maybe 60% to get greedy, that will be paid off by a decent portion of our opponent's non king made hand range, and of course his kings as well. Or we can move all-in and get calls from his KX, AA, and worse full houses. I don't mind either to be honest, I think things are relatively close. If this was a tighter limper I would prefer a shove and if it was a looser limper I would probably prefer 60%. We will get called less often when we shove but will get paid more and the converse is true when we bet less.
 
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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:26 PM
(#5)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Hi - thanks for all the comments - here was the result



It was ZOOm TC - and you were definitely right about the turn bet - I cannot fathom what I was thinking (mind you I am not absolutely sure what I am thinking right now tbh)

I rarely bet less than half-pot, usually if I'm not potting or overbetting I stick to 50%-75% - and that bit extra would have made a big difference to the eventual pot I could have built by the river - especially when this op paid off. They would have had less left behind and given Gareth's analysis and their holding and action would probably have paid me off for a shove on the river.

My whole line looks kind of weird when I bet 2/3rds pot, then less than 1/2 pot, then full pot. But hey - maybe that confused them enough to get the river call.

Thanks all

(See you in Sunday Special Live Training ZOOM shortly Gareth - I shall stay away from the 25NL ZOOM tonight.)

Ed
 

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