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How much should I raise entering the pot...

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How much should I raise entering the pot... - Wed Nov 14, 2012, 05:54 AM
(#1)
Beginner358's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 28
...and why?

People always say it fine to raise about 3 times the BB if you are entering the pot. Why is that? Is it ok to raise smaller or bigger?

Thanks
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 07:46 AM
(#2)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
To get more value for your hand and to make sure those with speculative hands don't have the odds to call. Ideally you want to be against one opponent with a strong/made hand that has little chance of improving to minimize your chances of being outdrawn.

Most people tend to raise anywhere from 3-5 times the bb, it's better if you vary your preflop raises to make it harder for an observant opponent to get a read on you.

Last edited by Guyguyson; Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 07:48 AM..
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 08:16 AM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyguyson View Post
...it's better if you vary your preflop raises to make it harder for an observant opponent to get a read on you.
I'm not sure I agree with this. Varying can be ok, but DO NOT vary based on your hand stregth! This would definately give an observant opponent a read on you.

Personally, I suggest sticking to the standard preflop bet size of 3x bb if you are playing cash games. This is the norm at the micro stakes and will not attract unwanted attention. Furthermore, if you always raise the same, no matter how observant the opponent is, your bet size will tell them nothing about what you are holding. The only read they will get is that you always open with a 3x bet size. (They can still get reads from your position, how often you you play hands, etc)

Standard bet sizes vary with respect to the game type and stakes you play. In tourneys for example 2.5x preflop is standard during the early and middle stages.

GL!

Roland GTX
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:12 AM
(#4)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
ya the standard that is mostly taught here is 3x the bb + 1bb for every limper in front of you. maybe a lil more if you're out of pos. since you want to charge a bit of a premium for the privelege of playing a pot against you with pos. on you.
and also agreed if you are going to vary your raise sizes, DON'T do it based on hand strength, but more based on your opponent type/ situation you find yourself in. some vary it based on position. the choice is really up to the idividual.
happy hunting


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:26 PM
(#5)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
I meant vary your bet sizes with position and use them to aid deception like making a slightly bigger than usual raise with a strong hand in a stealing position etc. Not base your bet size on hand value.
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:19 PM
(#6)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyguyson View Post
...like making a slightly bigger than usual raise with a strong hand in a stealing position etc.
It sounds like you might be basing your bet size based on your holdings. This can be exploited so be careful

There are plenty of good reasons to vary one's preflop bet size, but for a beginner I would still recommend sticking to the standard 3x bb plus 1x for each limper. Keep it simple

Good topic for discussion guys!

Roland GTX
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:37 PM
(#7)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
It sounds like you might be basing your bet size based on your holdings. This can be exploited so be careful
Roland GTX
If you're in the cutoff, button, SB and get dealt a strong hand and the action is folded around to you a bigger than average raise could be seen as a steal attempt, someone might re-raise you in an attempt to stop you stealing their blind which would be incorrect considering your actual hand. You wouldn't want to do it often and it obviously depends on your table image and the image other players have given.

Am I wrong in thinking this is a valid deceptive play?

Edit: Actually the example I gave was pretty convoluted and is contrary to the style this site teaches. I just meant you should vary bets to aid in deceptive play.

Last edited by Guyguyson; Wed Nov 14, 2012 at 02:52 PM..
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:45 PM
(#8)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Sure that could work against the right opponent. If it works for you then stick with it.

However, as you pointed out, it is something people can pick up on. If you are running a stat tracker you can check the numbers if this a line you regularly take. Personally, I would think that an standard 3x from the btn would be more likely to entice a 3-bet. It is smaller than what you are suggesting, and anytime I see someone bet an unusual amount, I get a bit wary.

From my own experience, ABC poker works quite well at the micro stakes. From a teaching perspective, learning the fundamentals seems like a good place to start

Good luck at the tables!

Roland GTX
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:13 PM
(#9)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
The more I think about it the harder I find it to disagree. I got that advice out of a book so either they were wrong or I misunderstood. Either way I agree with you and feel I learnt something so thanks.
 
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Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:38 PM
(#10)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyguyson View Post
The more I think about it the harder I find it to disagree. I got that advice out of a book so either they were wrong or I misunderstood. Either way I agree with you and feel I learnt something so thanks.
Great! Thanks for the feedback and the good discussion.

Roland GTX
 

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