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NOMB! Just Wondering!

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NOMB! Just Wondering! - Mon Nov 18, 2002, 08:38 AM
(#1)
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I understand that PSO costs money to belong to. I also understand that when one spends THEIR money on something, they are entitled to use it as they wish. I understand that how people play their cards is their choice. I understand that there are bad players in the "real world", and that nothing here is any different than it would be if I were playing live. Here's what I DON'T understand. This being a poker school, shouldn't the main objective of belonging be to learn the game, and become a better player? Why then, do you always see players (and not just 1 or 2,,,I see a LOT) playing as if they discovered the game yesterday? I was very bad when I became a Member here, and I am far from being good, now, but I can honestly say that I have studied everything here that I can, and feel as if my game has come a long way. I understand what hands I can and should play in the different positions, and I try to utilize what I've learned as much as possible.
It is just so frustrating, to me! Yesterday, in the only tournament I played in, I played very tight, only to lose EVERY time I entered a pot. Didn't matter how I bet, or how much, someone always stayed in, and beat me with a hand that should have never been called to begin with! (according to all that I have studied) And this was by several different players, all who have been here more than long enough to at least know the hand groupings, and where they can be safely played.
"In the long run", I realize that this type of play will benefit me, that "solid play" will bring in the money, eventually. But with only the "freeze out" format available, most times one doesn't have the luxury of waiting out cards. By the time your "solid play" does it's job, you've already taken several bad beats, and don't have the chips to contend.
Just venting, I know, and I'm sure this post will bring some "interesting" replies. I simply don't understand how someone can be here for any length of time, and still play the "any 2'll do", no matter WHAT the reason!
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 08:54 AM
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To clarify my point a little, (and this is just an example) suppose there is a lesson that states, "NEVER play QT os, because it will always lose you money in the long run." (As I said,,,just an EXAMPLE!! NOT saying this is a true lesson!) You read the lesson, and it makes sense. You decide to take this advice, and join a tournament. I guarantee, you will see MANY players playing that exact hand. And then I'm wondering, "am I the only one here who reads these things?" Just a small example, but I see this sort of thing here a LOT. Almost every hand, by a big percentage of players.
Once again I'll say, "just venting", but I still find it very hard to believe that there are that many people here who just want to have fun and not learn.
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 09:06 AM
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The closest analogy I can think of off-hand is to watch a craps table. EVERY bet (except getting "correct" odds for the shooter after establishing a point) is an underlay. All those people around the table (and a roulette setup, etc.) are taking the worst of it. ALL of them - every time. But they keep coming back.

There is no way for anyone to win except the house - in the long run. Sometimes that can be very long and even a craps layout can have a losing day. But if it ever had a losing week you can bet that somebody put in some loaded dice!

Vent away if you like but you really have to establish a very even keel to play this game and if you deviate much and play QT (except in really unusual circumstances) your BR will suffer.

As I am fond of saying, come back and post after a 1000 events. Keep records, etc. There's no "trade secrets" in this game. Big cards win.
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 09:14 AM
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THANKS, geezer! VERY good reply! Just about the same thing I was thinking! lol Yes, I plan to stick with my style, and I know nothing I say or do will change some people's play. And when I say "venting",,,I'm definately not "on tilt" or angry about the subject. Just have to shake my head, smile, and say "geez" a LOT!
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 11:28 AM
(#5)
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I play every hand lately. I am not here to learn either. Which is just as well, as there are no lessons on big-bet play.

I hope you are just talking about limit when you say you follow the lessons. Applying these limit hand groups and the like to big-bet is no good as the hand values and groups, or whatever, are different.

Even then, the limit lessons apply more to the cash games I think. Are there any limit lessons explaining adjustments for tournaments? The survival concept has a slightly bigger impact on how to adjust your action in a tournament compared to the same situation in a limit cash game, than it does on how you adjust your usual action in big-bet tournament compared to a cash game
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 12:11 PM
(#6)
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Yes, noodles, I am well aware of the different aspects of play when it comes to cash games, big bet and tournament poker. The lessons here at PSO are not my only avenues of study. And I was using the above "lesson" as an example only. If I came across sounding like I use every lesson here at PSO in my tournament play, that was not my intention. I was simply trying to explain my feelings of wonder at some of the hands played here at PSO, and why some people played them. Not with the intention of "dogging" someone's play, either. But you have answered that question, with your statement that you play every hand, and are not here to learn. There must be others with the same intent. TY for the replies. I appreciate them.
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 02:07 PM
(#7)
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Bob - I'm pretty sure there are quite a few players here who play for light entertainment. 'Learning' or 'improving their game' is just not an issue.

I don't think I've ever posted a bad-beat story here, but this just happened to me in a NLHE sat :

I raise with AA utg. J3o on the button calls, and 2 other callers. Flop is K93 rainbow. I bet the pot, J3o raises all-in. I call, fearing 99 or 33. J on the turn knocks me out. Random play, virtually, from the button. I'll double through here just as often as I should. And that's the point - we don't remember the times the idiot hand gets mucked or you wonder 'why did they do that?' before moving on to the next hand with a big stack.

I'm sure there's a limit to real-money stupidity that is exceeded at freeroll sites lke PSO, where madness has little or no cost.

But I'm also sure it's damn good practice. The road is very long. Stuff happens.

cheers

Glenn
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 02:18 PM
(#8)
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I'm not here to learn, at least not lately, and that will remain so until next May or June, where I will start to try and get my game back into shape, and then improve upon it.

However, seeing 90% of flops when the money is deepish in big-bet is an excellent learning experience. I recommend it to develop your post flop play in terms of how to play certain flops and situations. So even though I am just currently playing for fun, messing about, and trying things out with little interest in my results, it does still have learning possibilities that people would do well to explore.

In fact, in games with really deep money, say 200X BB, then you should be playing some pretty funky hands anyway. But you have to be good at reading players and playing post flop. Which is why seeing every flop is good practice at PSO. Raising every hand preflop would also be good practice.

Where have you found resources on big-bet hand values? I have never really found a decent source. Super System is probably the best, but is really concerned with very deep money play. TJ cloutiers book is no good in that respect, and Ciaffone books don't really discuss it as far as I am aware. Do you know of any available besides those I have metioned?

I think the best material on starting hands with regards big-bet comes as part of the written material that you get when you pay for lessons off Bob Ciaffone. That's the only stuff available, that I know of, that discusses the adjustments in starting values between limit and big-bet. Unless his book 'improve your poker' discusses it also. I highly recommend both resources.
 
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Mon Nov 18, 2002, 05:09 PM
(#9)
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I rarely see anyone mention that the cards you play should differ depending on your stack size, and depending on tight/aggressive table etc.

The cards I play when small/medium/large stack are very different, so is the way I play them.

LIMIT RING GAME is a science
NO LIMT TOURNY is an artform


CLAY
 

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