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Tough Decision? :confused:

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Tough Decision? :confused: - Tue Nov 20, 2012, 07:57 AM
(#1)
S7evin1's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
BronzeStar
Hi all, I'd love to get some opinions on this:

PokerStars Hand #89529031382: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2012/11/20 7:44:28 ET
Table 'Hedda II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: S7evin1 ($1.02 in chips)
Seat 3: swissgnome59 ($2.23 in chips)
Seat 4: meierflo ($5 in chips)
Seat 5: Martin130113 ($2.15 in chips)
Seat 6: losibk2 ($2.62 in chips)
Seat 7: Jackmacaa ($5.18 in chips)
Seat 8: r4res ($1 in chips)
Seat 9: Feniys ($0.96 in chips)
S7evin1: posts small blind $0.01
swissgnome59: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to S7evin1 [Jd Kd]
meierflo: folds
badboy323232 leaves the table
Martin130113: raises $2.13 to $2.15 and is all-in
losibk2: folds
Jackmacaa: folds
r4res: folds
Feniys: folds
S7evin1: folds
swissgnome59: folds
Uncalled bet ($2.13) returned to Martin130113
Martin130113 collected $0.05 from pot
Martin130113: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.05 | Rake $0
Seat 1: S7evin1 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: swissgnome59 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: meierflo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Martin130113 collected ($0.05)
Seat 6: losibk2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Jackmacaa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: r4res folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Feniys (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

S7evin1
 
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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:24 AM
(#2)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
You had a good hand, but I'm not sure it worth an all-in without seeing the flop.

When somebody jumps off with an all-in bet pre flop, I'm thinking he is holding a top five pocket pair hand. (AA - TT) It isn't worth risking my hand unless I'm holding one of the same kind of hand. Note that your opponent had a net gain of 5¢ while risking his entire stake. Not wise unless you have the power. Of course this is a one-hand read on your opponent.
 
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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 08:33 AM
(#3)
S7evin1's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
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Thanks alot ! I appreciate it ! I found Your opinion very helpful for me. Thanks again !
 
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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:23 AM
(#4)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Never ever calling that shove unless the numpty is a total maniac - maybe not even then.
 
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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:27 AM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
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It's an instant fold for me.

John (JWK24)


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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 01:56 PM
(#6)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
super, super easy fold on 50 bb. make it 5 or 6 bb and ya got yourself a call lol


May the tinfoil protect you. MT
 
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Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:44 PM
(#7)
adsthepro777's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 630
--Moved to appropriate forum--

Make sure you add in if you have any reads on your opponents/table image or dynamics etc. if you can
 
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Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:40 AM
(#8)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi S7evin1

If you were deciding whether or not to call the shove, then you made the right choice

Without a very strong read on the villain, I would only consider calling a preflop all in raise as in this spot if you are holding KK or AA.

KJs will be either a coinflip vs a smaller pocket pair, a 60/40 underdog to Ax, or a big underdog if the villain has AJ, AK, QQ, KK or AA.

If I misunderstood your question, just reply to the post.

GL and have fun at the tables!

Roland GTX
 
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Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:14 PM
(#9)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
The key thing to note in my opinion:

You need a touch over 52% equity to break even vs the rake to make a call with any hand here in a HU situation. A 32.3% range is what it takes to get that with KJs versus JUST the shover.

Someone shoving almost 1/3rd of the time would be pretty noticeable, and about the ONLY time you;d even stop a moment to think if a call with KJs is ok here would be if you;d noticed the shover to be a total lunatic.

The fact you do not close the action with your decision (the BB is still to act after you) is also somewhat troubling here. If the BB has a 24.5% over call range he is "break even" to over call here vs your KJs and a 32.3% maniac open shove range. The farther away the BB is likely to be from this number in his actual decision, either tighter OR looser, the more often you should CALL the initial maniac (assuming he meets our requirement of about 1 in 3 hands shoved).

If he (the BB) is looser than this (24.5% overcall range), you are farther ahead and fine to play against 2 opp's in a +eV spot.

If he is a lot tighter than this, he will not have a hand often enough to call, and your call will effectively isolate you on the maniac.

It is only when he might be SLIGHTLY tighter than a 24.5% over call range that things start going bad for you...

Bottom line:

- if you do not immediately know the shover is incredibly wild, fold KJs here.

If you DO elect to call...

- You gotta know the effect of your call on the BB's overcall standards. The more the BB deviates from optimal decisions, the more you should be willing to CALL the shove with your KJs (as long as the shover is wild enough of course).

thoughts anyone?
 
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Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:52 PM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Super easy fold. Even if the villain's range is wider than premium pairs and AK we are not good equity shape unless the guy is a super maniac like JDean notes.

I wouldn't worry about the BB a lot, even if the villain was a super maniac and you were going to call that should look very strong, the BB will usually only overcall with a monster, probably folding a good 95% of the time if they're sane.


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Sun Dec 02, 2012, 01:54 AM
(#11)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Super easy fold. Even if the villain's range is wider than premium pairs and AK we are not good equity shape unless the guy is a super maniac like JDean notes.

I wouldn't worry about the BB a lot, even if the villain was a super maniac and you were going to call that should look very strong, the BB will usually only overcall with a monster, probably folding a good 95% of the time if they're sane.
Essentially Dave I was expressing the "concern" over the BB only insofar as YOUR image might effect his over call standards. I probably should have been clearer in expressing that most often the BB is not likely to be an issue. As you say, he will muck WAY more often than 24.5% range if you have anything like a "normal" image, and therefore your call/fold decision should solely be based upon the maniac shover.

If, however, your image is loose enough (or the BB is loose enough) that a 20 to 24.5% over call range might be likely, then you could well need to reassess your call standards. In this band your call becomes -eV if/when the BB overcalls.

Don't get me wrong, micro stakes players who might make the adjustments needed to maintain a wide over call range (but not TOO wide)from the BB are rare, as are players who might "properly" call a big jam with a hand like KJs, so it is all a bit moot. Still, the opinions asked for were given: it is almost always an insta-fold...but SOMETIMES it might not be!

:-)
 

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