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How to lose with aa

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How to lose with aa - Fri Nov 30, 2012, 07:42 PM
(#1)
IamLauncelot's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 26
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nice one eh? i could not belive it also..how much luck can you have

i've seen AA beaten by AJ or Ak with JJ or KK on the flop but this one is....i wonder if he had to pay to enter the tournament he would have made that move with 9 Q..i just wonder

Last edited by IamLauncelot; Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 07:53 PM..
 
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Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:04 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,841
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**moved to more appropriate forum JWK24**


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:25 PM
(#3)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
typical friday night, to many drunks probably seen double of everything lol.

He probably thought he was playing omaha lol.

Unlucky mate the aces get them in the long run.
 
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Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:38 PM
(#4)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
All-in pre on a 100 bb effective stack is a good play with rockets?
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 12:04 AM
(#5)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
All-in pre on a 100 bb effective stack is a good play with rockets?

THIS!!!


It's Level 1,you have 153BB and you're shipping over 2 limpers?

WHY???!!!

You're lucky that anyone was thick enough to call in the first place,seeing as you had chosen to punt every bit of value that your rockets had with this shove. Only another Category 1 hand is ever calling you here if it's a competent player against you,if not...don't hate the donk for being a donk,appreciate them,NOTE them,and move on.

By the by,if I were an innocent bystander on this table they aren't the only one I would be noting. If you think I'm passing on noting a player who shoves 150 bigs with AA for no reason then you're nuts.

Not only will you lose all the value you could get by just standard raising here (3x + 1x for each limper...so a raise of 100 would have been fine...),but if something DOES go wrong on the flop or after,and that WILL happen often enough to be a consideration,then you've voluntarily taken your own fold button away. Or any ability to try and slow the hand down and use pot control if the hand starts to smell.

Once you put your chips in the middle you take all the skill out of the equation and leave the outcome to luck and luck alone. And luck WILL kick your teeth down your throat and pull them out your bum,just to do it all again,enough in this game as it is.
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 12:10 AM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
typical friday night, to many drunks probably seen double of everything lol.

He probably thought he was playing omaha lol.

Unlucky mate the aces get them in the long run.

There has never been,nor will there ever be,an occasion when there are TOO MANY drunks on the tables. Especially in micro games.

Idiots + alcohol = truly putrid poker. That's about as +EV as it gets in my book. I used to LOVE Friday's on here,best day of the week IMO.

I will never understand the thinking behind there being too many bad players at the tables,no matter the reason. Bad players are who pay us off with the greatest frequency. Why would one ever want LESS of them?
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 12:46 AM
(#7)
IamLauncelot's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 26
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Thank you for your comments

Being in the first stages i actually was hoping for someone to do just that...because they often do. The problem is that even if i would have seen the flop with one 9 i would have still raised and he'd still go all in and with aa and that flop i would have called...wouldn't you??

The thing is he hit on turn another 9 and a Q on river so...c'mon...that is pure luck you can't see that every day i mean ok he hit a set on turn but a full on river??? c'mon..


I've seen AJ winning against AA with JJ on flop but that's it..or AK also with KK on flop..beating an AA with a set it's common...but with a full it's my first time when i see that
Tell me the odds of that

That's why i've posted it here because it's hilaryous i think i laughed for 30 minutes and could not belive he hit a full with 9Q against an AA... and i wanted to share the experience

Last edited by IamLauncelot; Sat Dec 01, 2012 at 12:49 AM..
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 01:51 AM
(#8)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
I agree with the others. The shove is insane and definitely would earn you a red label for me (red = appears to know nothing about betsizing). Although I can see your reasoning. First few hands in a biggie, peopl will shove and call with anything hoping to get lucky. Still, I hate the play.

On the other side, he'd probably call a normal size bet anyway, and there's a good chance you'd never be able to bet him off his 9 on the flop, and by the time the turn hits you're cracked anyway.

That's where you value owned yourself. If you lead the flop, he calls, then lead the turn, there's a good chance he'll raise you. And at that point, you might wanna consider the value of your aces.

It's called the Baluga Theorem: "If you are facing a raise on the turn, you should re-evaluate the strength of your hand if you are holding one-pair."

That said - I'm pretty sure I wouldn'be getting away from my aces on the turn on that paired board. I'm not good enough for that.

The queen on the river is a blank. You can't compare his luck to hitting both the 9 and the Q. The 9 or the Q alone with other random cards would also have cracked your aces... Basically he flopped an 18% hand - once the 9 flopped he was set to win once in about 5 times...

Chalk it up to bad luck, but also bad play. As said, you want value for your aces, and action like this usually makes everyone fold. If this hand had played out reasonably, Q9 guy would have folded preflop, especially since he hadn't even invested a single chip yet. Do you really want to waste your rockets to win only 70 chips?

As for your last question: his Q9 is a 16% hand against your aces. Not the best hand to crazk aces with, but certainly a contender. Even from the start you were set to lose the hand 1 out of 6 times. Which is reasonable: his hand has a lot more potential of hitting than yours: you can only hit 2 outs to improve while he has to hit 2 cards out of 6, not counting straight possibilities.

There's also the value aspect: suppose you play aces against Q9 this way every single time. You'll win 5 out of 6 times. But how many times will Q9 guy actually call off? Let's be liberal and say once in 10 times. That makes 60 hands of which you win 54 because he folds, 5 because he calls, and lose 1 because he wins.
You invest 60 x 1500 = 90k chips, he invests 9k. Your winnings: 7.5k. His winnings: 1.5k. Your value: 8.3%. His value: 17%. If he's calling less than 1 in 10 times, the value shifts even more in his favor. In other words: shipping it here is a bad move EV wise, even if you do win 5/6 times.

Lesson learned: don't overvalue a one pair hand...
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 09:07 AM
(#9)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
There has never been,nor will there ever be,an occasion when there are TOO MANY drunks on the tables. Especially in micro games.

Idiots + alcohol = truly putrid poker. That's about as +EV as it gets in my book. I used to LOVE Friday's on here,best day of the week IMO.

I will never understand the thinking behind there being too many bad players at the tables,no matter the reason. Bad players are who pay us off with the greatest frequency. Why would one ever want LESS of them?
I personally like 2-3 fish max at the table mox,two many cooks spoil the broth and all that lol but yes I can see your point m8t.
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 10:25 AM
(#10)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
Just saw something like this with a7 vs kk all in preflop.

They flopped a set of aces followed by 7's on the turn and river.

Overkill.
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 10:26 AM
(#11)
IamLauncelot's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 26
BronzeStar
ok ok..you are technicaly right ...i agree with you

but still it was a free roll...people just do that so i thought i have an advantage...anyway...never all in unless i am sure

your points of view are noted and thank you for them

but you gotta admit this one is way lucky...as i said..a set ok..i've beaten aa with a set too...but seen a full beating aa..never so that's why is so amazing and hilaryous and funny and UNBELIVEBLE

Thank you again for your reviews and hoped you enjoyed the replay
 
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Sat Dec 01, 2012, 02:43 PM
(#12)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
I personally like 2-3 fish max at the table mox,two many cooks spoil the broth and all that lol but yes I can see your point m8t.
I'm not concerned by how many fish are at the table, I am worried if the are more than 2 good players there. With fish its a higher reward for higher variance. Against too many good players your win rate drops precipitously.

And regarding the OP, as TheLangolier says "Why turn AA into 72off?

Good decisions.
 

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