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5NL - KK getting raised on flop in 3bet pot

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5NL - KK getting raised on flop in 3bet pot - Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:37 AM
(#1)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Villain is 22/18/5 (50 hands)
no info on Foldto3Bet or 4bet stats.

What do we do in this spot? Shove? Fold?
What hands are in his 3bet calling range and raising on such a coordinated board in a 3bet pot?

 
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Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:01 PM
(#2)
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Nasty situation. The board may be coordinated, but that's not deterring me. If he is on the draw he's still going to need to catch, which means I'm ahead. Problem is I don't see him folding to a shove here with his draw. If you shove, he'll need to call off his $3.87 to win $9.72 giving him 40% pot odds. Assuming he's on a flush draw he's got 9 outs for just under 40% and if he has an ace, that'd be better, he's not folding. I wouldn't put him on an open ender as I don't see an 8 in his range (well, wordt case scenario would be A8 of hearts but would he call preflop with that?)

If you call now, there's a good chance he will shove the turn himself, then we certainly can't call.

Considering, I'd probably shove here and hope for the best.
 
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Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:15 PM
(#3)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I'm happy getting it in against draws. I'm more worried whether his range is oriented towards sets.

What could he flat a 3bet and raise with on such a board can he do it with 88 or TT, a pair and a draw?

66/77/99 could all be there is his flatting range or maybe slow played AA; in which case we are in terrible shape. But can we include other hands like AhQh or QQ/JJ, 78s/98s/T9s, etc. to make it a good shove?

Main quesion is: How do we approach a raise from an unknown in a 3bet pot on a coordinated flop?
 
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Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:51 PM
(#4)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey Geo

I think you are right to identify this as a raise or fold spot, where calling is a poor path.

I would move all-in. I think there are enough hands that can call us that are worse and we definitely want to put the money in versus draws.

So I think there are a lot of hands like flush draws and worse overpairs that we are going to stack. There are also going to be some combination draws like top pair + gutshot, top pair + open ender that we can get our money in good against.

Occasionally we are going to run into a set or even rarely a straight, but I think, out of position, with a lot of money in the pot, and a hand as strong as pocket kings, I think we should move all in and take our lumps. I think we'll come out ahead overall.
 
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Tue Dec 11, 2012, 04:42 AM
(#5)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Thanks Gareth. I did end up shoving and running into a set of 7s
It's just the way it's been going lately :S
 

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