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I hate these spots!!

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I hate these spots!! - Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:16 AM
(#1)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385


villain's a swede n 27/13 over 13 hands. AF is infinite n AFq is 75, prob bcos the the small sample ssize

Right fold or good bluff?

Last edited by wikked76; Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 05:18 AM..
 
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Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:16 AM
(#2)
kingkong263's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 175
check raising u on the turn with KQ or aset of Js seems like a strange play even with poket 8s maybe he had KQ or 88 .but looked like a bluff to me seemed like he wanted u to fold your pair. to me it looked like he was saying he had 88 . buy why check raise the turn with 88 ? pretty s**** u got bluffed
 
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Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:07 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi wikked,

This could also be QQ-AA that thinks it's good as the way you played your hand you can have a lot of draws in your range. At any rate I would call here as there should be plenty of worse hands he'll show up with (not worried about him ever having an 8 here the way he played this).

Of more pressing concern I think is why you didn't raise the flop? We should have the best hand the vast majority of the time on this flop, it's an action flop, and there are many turn cards that can kill our action. I think we are losing a lot of value not raising directly on the flop when we hit our set, especially on an action board where the villain can have a fair bit of draws and pair+draw combos, as well as put us on a draw making an aggressive semi-bluff and come back over the top of us with his strong 1 pair holdings to "protect" his hand.

I definitely like the flat call pre on 235bb effective stacks, when we hit our set let's raise it up and start building the pot immediately imo.


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Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:39 PM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
You've got to raise the flop. The hand becomes much easier to play if you take a straightforward line. If villain flopped a straight, it's a cooler, but I'm stacking off here 100% of the time. Raise the flop, bet the turn, shove the river. Easy game.
 
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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:40 AM
(#5)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi Dave, I agree with rasising the flop. I guess we should be okay most of the time if we get it in in such spots?
Let's say the hand went: bet, we raise, villain re-raises? Do we get it in here?

or: bet, we raise, villain calls, villain checks turn, we bet, he raises. do we still get it in here?

My concern comes due to stack sizes. in 100bb effective I think raising flop and getting it in is correct.
 
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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:27 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
Hi Dave, I agree with rasising the flop. I guess we should be okay most of the time if we get it in in such spots?
Let's say the hand went: bet, we raise, villain re-raises? Do we get it in here?
Yep, I get it in here. Would be easier with reads of course to know what's best (stats from 13 hands is not a read). But in a vacuum assigning a range he would bet/3b/get it in on this flop I think realistically looks like this: 99+, KQ, 87s (assume he is not opening pre with 87o). So we're losing to the straights (but have reasonable equity with our FH draw), and to JJ, beating the rest. Our equity against this range is still almost 55% so we're still a favorite here.

Quote:
or: bet, we raise, villain calls, villain checks turn, we bet, he raises. do we still get it in here?
Probably, but it depends on the turn card obv. On blank turns I think we do.

Quote:
My concern comes due to stack sizes. in 100bb effective I think raising flop and getting it in is correct.
Totally understand, and yes 100bb effective not raise/getting it in is yuck. Still 235bb deep doesn't dissuade me from getting a set in against an unknown at microstakes, as some/many don't even relate the depth of money to relative hand strength and will still stack off enough worse hands to make it profitable for us.


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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:21 PM
(#7)
wikked76's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 385
1stly, thanks for the comments, replies and analysis, esp to Dave

I was tanking on the river for abit n decided to fold.. totally agree that I shudda raised the flop but the slowplaying bit me back in the a** big time n had a hard time in the end
 

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