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5NL - QQ getting check raised on flop

5NL - QQ getting check raised on flop - Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:45 AM
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306

Here's my thought process:

MP is unknown so I decided to flat QQ instead of putting a 3bet because I don't know what to do if I got 4bet without information on our villain here. The draw back to that is that we give the blinds good odds to call, which is exactly what happens.

BB is 24/21/3 (67 hands)
he decides to check raise us which could mean two things: Either he has a set or a massive draw. Maybe some over pairs 55-TT but perhaps he would have lead the flop with hands like 77-TT
Still we cannot tell due to the lack of history and significant sample size.

I decide to call and see what he does on the turn. Once he bets the turn that big which commits us both, I think he either has a made str8 or improved to one and protecting from a flush draw maybe?

1. Would 3betting QQ pre-flop be a better option?
2. should I have raised the c/r flop and be willing to get it in?
3. Is the turn fold correct?
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:33 AM
kingkong263's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 175
i like 3betting QQ preflop . i think u made a good fold on the turn. u could maybe folded flop the check raise looked strong with the utg raiser still to act. think u got out flopped
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:19 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
I might stack off on the flop. You're only losing to A5s, 65s, and 44-22. Villain is just as likely (if not more likely) to have 66-JJ. He'd probably raise the flop with any overpair, and that's quite a lot of combos you're beating.
Against his entire range for raising the flop, you're probably gonna hold about 60% of the time, so if you can cope with the variance, then getting it in is fine.

Board: 4d 2d 3c
       Equity     Win     Tie
Hero   61.73%  60.58%   1.16% { QQ }
Villain 38.27%  37.11%   1.16% { JJ-22, A5s, 65s }

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:23 PM..
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:04 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Hi geo,

I generally prefer 3-betting for value preflop against an unknown here. My general plan is to not 3b/fold QQ to an unknown 4-betting on 100bb effective so if he does 4b I'd be going with it, but it's important not to get overly worried about this scenario. We won't get 4b very often anyway, and when we do we will (hopefully) but up against enough AK and worse hands to offset the times we stack off to KK/QQ. And we need to factor in the profitability that comes from isolating this guy's worse hands where he's going to call our 3b out of position with hands like AJs and 88.

On the flop, if we think the check-raiser is doing this with overpairs to the board as well as sets and draws, then going ahead and stacking it in is fine. We really want hands like 88 to get in the middle right now before something scary comes to shut down their action (and vs. those hands most turn cards are scary in some way). If I didn't feel like the guy would c/r overpairs but rather check/call them, then I would probably flat and use the turn card, his action, and my position to make a more informed decision. Given the line we took though of just flatting pre and now betting the flop when checked to, it would not be unreasonable at all for him to think 88-JJ are the best hand and put in a raise for value and protection.

As played folding to the big turn bet is probably good, as the way we've played the hand the 6 can complete us but he's making a huge bet anyway, so he doesn't seem to care much, he seems to be willing to stack off. It's possible he's overplaying 88-JJ but less likely now imo.

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