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Wtf seriously?!?!

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Wtf seriously?!?! - Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:05 PM
(#1)
BUTTCHIN0707's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 212
ChromeStar
so out of a 4,000 runner tourney we are down to around 150 players....

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...423_7B7FE0BECF

How did this type of player get so far?!
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:13 PM
(#2)
BUTTCHIN0707's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 212
ChromeStar
Then I'm re-united with out lil donkey friend, and thiss happens....
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:23 PM
(#3)
BUTTCHIN0707's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 212
ChromeStar
seriously wtf!!!!!!!!!!

last 60 out of 4,000!!!!!

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...743_69BE211A62
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:32 PM
(#4)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Nothing wrong in both his plays
Bad beats happen, it's part of the game
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:58 PM
(#5)
Spartan642's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 74
I wouldnt put nearly 20% of my stack in with Q6 even in late position , with also the possibility of the limper still in play .

You played it right.
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:50 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
This late in the game if he's a LAG player, that is normal play for him and this late in the game, AA is an all in.

Just my thoughts
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:13 PM
(#7)
BUTTCHIN0707's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 212
ChromeStar
I forgot to link the other one,

I was back on his table, and he was calling every bet from some other unfortunate guy, with 2-4!!!! he hit runner 4's!!! wtf!!

The KQ was fair enough, I had been pretty active and was stealing blinds, but it's typical BS that when I'm close to a big payday, I get screwed!

always the same, I'm confident in my play because I cash quite a bit but I never get past the $100 ish mark ...

Anyway I feel that I have moaned far enough now, so I'll shut up and be positive! haha
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:09 PM
(#8)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
Happens to us all, here's my worst beat today. I had a read here and was almost positive my opponent was shoving light.

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...531_D53D3D8DC7
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:30 AM
(#9)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
This late in the game if he's a LAG player, that is normal play for him and this late in the game, AA is an all in.

Just my thoughts
I have to agree with sandtrap, the aa should of been a push,, and i think the aq push utg was a bit speculative you could of ran into ak etc just as easy and theres know way with his stack was he going to fold his hand.

I think you played both hands backwards to be honest.

And an observation, look up LAG, its a style that can produce chips fast but also the opposite it can lose you chips fast.
Look this up, dont change your style if your TAG, just understand how the LAG players think, and this will help you to understand, and then when a LAG takes down the pot you will just laugh it off,
spotting a donk from a LAG is hard work but there are tell tails that give them away.
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:29 PM
(#10)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
Nothing wrong in both his plays
Bad beats happen, it's part of the game
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
I have to agree with sandtrap, the aa should of been a push,, and i think the aq push utg was a bit speculative you could of ran into ak etc just as easy and theres know way with his stack was he going to fold his hand.

I think you played both hands backwards to be honest.

And an observation, look up LAG, its a style that can produce chips fast but also the opposite it can lose you chips fast.
Look this up, dont change your style if your TAG, just understand how the LAG players think, and this will help you to understand, and then when a LAG takes down the pot you will just laugh it off,
spotting a donk from a LAG is hard work but there are tell tails that give them away.

Totally disagree with you two here on the initial action in this hand.

Villain 7 does have the advantage of the button here yes,but calling off roughly 20% of his/her stack is weak poker and doing it with a wildly speculative hand like Q6s,against a limp and then a 3.5x raise,is a spew. Nothing else. The player is at 8.5M,they should only be coming into an already opened pot with a shove here. And if they are into shoving a hand like Q6s against the prior action in this hand...well perma "buddy list" status for them. Heck if the replayer showed player ID's I would be adding this player to my notes database as we speak. Really bad poker by the villain here IMHO.

Buttchins' 3.5x raise is OK,I personally would probably go 4 or 5x here myself (more likely 4 as that would tend to be my standard). I really don't see the need to shove,we're LP on the CO and are perfectly fine with seeing the opening limper feel already invested and coming along. Plus we invite the button and the blinds to possibly shove over us with hands like AK,AQ and 99+ (Hell even wider than those ranges in a $2.20 Turbo MTT,let's be honest). 13+M we're a little deep to just be shoving against only an opening limp from a stack we have dominated. I personally like buttchins' pre-flop play here.

When the villain luck boxes this flop we're always going to double them up. The 40K bet off the flop is a little heavy but it's really immaterial here,we should be betting at least 1/2 the pot so we're pretty much always trying to commit the other 2 players to make a stack decision on any call off the flop. There's nothing about that 8d on the turn that would make me slow down personally. I honestly think Buttchin played the hand well here and that the villain played a terrible call pre-flop well after he got gifted with 2 pair.


The KQs hand is standard,no bad beat there. With the effective stack sizes in play here I'm probably flatting myself,as I wouldn't fancy shoving to ISO here as it's already an all-in call for the button and SB,and I would not be happy seeing the BB call a shove as I would know I'm probably crushed.

holdem he's 2.75M here. If you think that shipping with AQo is a sketchy play from ANY position at this point then you really need to do some thinking on that claim.

Well played both hands buttchin,just ran into the reality of why it's not ever easy to make FT's in deep field MTT's.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:32 PM..
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:37 PM
(#11)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
Happens to us all, here's my worst beat today. I had a read here and was almost positive my opponent was shoving light.

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...531_D53D3D8DC7

That's sick.
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:07 PM
(#12)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
Hey Mox, view it as a donk, LAG view if you can, we have limper, then a raise from hero, LAG/donk on the button and as posistion, he sees it that if i call and maybe the sb or bb calls, and then the more than likely initial limper would call.

This gives me good odds to call.

Reason one maybe....

But personally at this stage I dont want to be fighting on the flop 3 or 4 way, I want my aces to isolate the original limper and make it heads up if he/she calls.

The button certainly is not calling a shove with q6?

The worse case senario everyone folds we pick up a nice pot.

The bet to me just did not look like aces, it seemed a strange size bet and maybe thats another reason.

As for the AQ moxie, he was low stack yes, but could he consider making better itm, maybe a open limp just to see?
I just personally felt a shove was the wrong play at the time, I do it myself, when maybe I could squueeze a few more orbits and get a better position spot to push.
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:16 PM
(#13)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
open-limping is NEVER good.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:37 PM
(#14)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post

As for the AQ moxie, he was low stack yes, but could he consider making better itm, maybe a open limp just to see?
I just personally felt a shove was the wrong play at the time, I do it myself, when maybe I could squueeze a few more orbits and get a better position spot to push.
Are you seriously going to limp AQ then fold on the flop when you miss?
when your in the
BB next hand would leave you with $74,177 less BB and antes you have $60,177.
Then the SB you would have $60,177 less SB and antes you have $52,177

So 3 hands later your on the Button with $50,177 after antes.
And there is $31,500 in the pot. If your lucky enough for it to get folded around to you, You should be shoving any two cards, and expect the BB to call with any two cards.

Unless you plan on time banking and folding every hand till you blind away, hoping to min cash.
Then AQ is a shove here every time IMO
Good Luck
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:51 PM
(#15)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
yea limping was probably a bad example. But thats all it was.

It depends on the money ladder presuming the hero was in itm,

I think i may of folded, to be honest, and yes maybe blind away and grind up the money ladder.

Looking at the large stack sizes the job was going to be extremely difficult to come back, so sometimes if the grinds only an extra money place.

The grind is worth it.

I think his stack could of with stand another rotation maybe.

Its hard for me sometimes to comment, Sometimes a hand just does not feel right.
This felt wrong to push the aq, call it gut but i would of bet on callers and the aq losing.
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:44 PM
(#16)
marvinsytan's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,453
Why I never have a bad beat?

because I took a beat as an ordinary beat

all beats are the same you lose

you lose just try again never give up and try to improve
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:04 AM
(#17)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinsytan View Post
Why I never have a bad beat?

because I took a beat as an ordinary beat

all beats are the same you lose

you lose just try again never give up and try to improve

I've never had one also marv, great reply



btw. folks.....really the poor me story does get a bit old,

no one really wants to hear it.

cheers
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:09 AM
(#18)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
open-limping is NEVER good.

John (JWK24)
never is a word in poker that should never be used....lol

cheers
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:25 AM
(#19)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
Hey Mox, view it as a donk, LAG view if you can, we have limper, then a raise from hero, LAG/donk on the button and as posistion, he sees it that if i call and maybe the sb or bb calls, and then the more than likely initial limper would call.

This gives me good odds to call.

Reason one maybe....

But personally at this stage I dont want to be fighting on the flop 3 or 4 way, I want my aces to isolate the original limper and make it heads up if he/she calls.

The button certainly is not calling a shove with q6?

The worse case senario everyone folds we pick up a nice pot.

The bet to me just did not look like aces, it seemed a strange size bet and maybe thats another reason.

As for the AQ moxie, he was low stack yes, but could he consider making better itm, maybe a open limp just to see?
I just personally felt a shove was the wrong play at the time, I do it myself, when maybe I could squueeze a few more orbits and get a better position spot to push.


Nothing wrong with being a LAG,I truly want to work some more LAG into my own play.

But....

I think you would be hard pressed to find any successful LAG's who think calling off 20% of their stack with Q6s is a winning play.

I constantly try to put myself in the shoes of the player who's action I'm analyzing against my play when I review my own hands. And the reasons for WHY the villain would call here are very likely on point as to the why. Having a reason doesn't make a bad play any better though.

This is a classic case of seeing that it worked for the villain in this example and then trying to back load a justification that it was a good play. It wasn't.

Same thing with the play by Buttchin and thinking he's better served by shoving here. Sorry but I just don't see it.

Were this a case of UTG limping and we sitting UTG+1 or MP1 or 2 then OK,a shove has some worth. You're correct that we don't necessarily want a 4 way pot with our Aces. But seeing as we're in the CO with only 3 more players to act what are the odds of that,really?

If we were in the first 3 or 4 spots then our 3.5 or 4x raise would be somewhat naked. We obviously have a big hand. So shoving makes more sense as we're likely shutting down action from anything but another Category 1 hand anyway. But from the CO they can put us on a wider range and WE CAN GET CALLED WITH WORSE.

We WANT this,if our intention is to try and accumulate as many chips as possible to try and hit the FT with a stack and ship the tournament. This does involve some risk holdem. Shoving our AA to try and get everyone,very probably including the open limper,to fold is not maximizing our opportunity with a premium hand.

That's min-cash,ladder climbing thinking and we'll never ship a big field MTT playing this way. When you DO get your chances in MTT's this size you can't play scared. Shoving AA here is playing them scared IMO. We're not being "trappy" here,3.5x is a good solid raise. We should greatly narrow the range of hands that can call us. The Q6s calling here is a great thing for us the vast majority of the time. Just understand that sometimes it will go against us and that's the breaks of the game.

Personally anyone who wants to call with a hand like Q6s when I 3.5x with my rockets will always be welcome on my table.

Lastly as to the first hand when you say the bet,to you,did not look like Aces...if you're playing me you'll never have to worry about that distinction. If I'm betting to open in a certain stage of a tourney or SNG,or 3x'ing plus 1x for each player who acted in front of me,or any other raising situation,I always try to make my bets uniform,so as to disguise my hand strength. IF I shake it up it's for considerations of position,not the quality of my hand. So my Aces bet will look exactly like my AJo,or J10s,or 66 bet. And so on.


As far as the AQo hand...NO,he most definitely SHOULD NOT be limping to try and cover his azz with this stack. It's simple...shove or fold. And we're never folding AQo with an unopened pot in front of us at 2.75M. Would take the nittiest of nits raising on front of me to get me to ever fold AQo with this stack.

And I would still hate myself.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 02:28 AM..
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:32 AM
(#20)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdemace486 View Post
yea limping was probably a bad example. But thats all it was.

It depends on the money ladder presuming the hero was in itm,

I think i may of folded, to be honest, and yes maybe blind away and grind up the money ladder.

Looking at the large stack sizes the job was going to be extremely difficult to come back, so sometimes if the grinds only an extra money place.

The grind is worth it.

I think his stack could of with stand another rotation maybe.

Its hard for me sometimes to comment, Sometimes a hand just does not feel right.
This felt wrong to push the aq, call it gut but i would of bet on callers and the aq losing.

Have you told joker that you don't intend to be bringing your balls to the table in 2013? This is something he'll want to know.


Seriously dude,we don't want a ladder climb,we want CHIPS. This is a chance,probably our very last chance,to get some.

FYI when I say that he's got an M of 2.75 that means he can last,just folding every hand,another 2 full rotations and a good piece of a third. That's what M calculates and is a big reason M should be considered for judging our stack in lieu of BB's after the antes come out.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 02:36 AM..
 

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