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A Question about continuation betting

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A Question about continuation betting - Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:33 PM
(#1)
ArtyFishal's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 3
Hello! (This is my first post)

I want to get advice on a situation that happens quite frequently to me playing the micro stakes 9 man sitngos.

Lets say I have a slightly below average chipstack at 1200 im in late position holding A/Qos, the blinds are 50/100 and I raise 3x that. I then get called by the big blind and I miss the flop, say 2d 5c 10h.

Now what would be the correct play with only 900 chips left, against someone who just about has me covered. Do I put in a standard continuation bet and risk being shoved and my tourney over if he has something, check and show weakness, or put him on the spot and go all in.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:01 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 25,148
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Hi ArtyFishal!

Welcome to the forum.

With 700 chips in the pot and 900 in front of me, a standard c-bet size (1/2 pot) would pot-commit me, so I'm going to shove if I want to bet. Whether I bet or check will be based on my read of the opp and how they are playing. If I'm pot-committed, I want to be the first one to get my chips in and have the pressure be on the opponent... not on me.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:06 PM
(#3)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Always be aware who's coming after you when you raise. If you're up against a no foldem type player then just shove. In saying that, I don't mind a raise in this spot. Against certain players we can extract more chips by seeing a flop.

As CBets are concerned, we only hit the flop 1 time in 3. You want to be CBetting about 2/3rds of the time. If you CBet every time or CBet only when you hit then it's a big tell that decent players will pick up on. Always be aware of the board texture and the type of opponent you're likely to face. If you miss the flop, ask yourself how likely your opponent is to have hit it?

I tend to agree with JWK about shoving in this particular spot but there are certain times I'd chose to check. Board texture and opponents are very dependent.
 
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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:58 PM
(#4)
baud2death's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,249
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyFishal View Post
Hello! (This is my first post)

I want to get advice on a situation that happens quite frequently to me playing the micro stakes 9 man sitngos.

Lets say I have a slightly below average chipstack at 1200 im in late position holding A/Qos, the blinds are 50/100 and I raise 3x that. I then get called by the big blind and I miss the flop, say 2d 5c 10h.

Now what would be the correct play with only 900 chips left, against someone who just about has me covered. Do I put in a standard continuation bet and risk being shoved and my tourney over if he has something, check and show weakness, or put him on the spot and go all in.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Firstly in a short field the average chipstack is not something you should focus on. Stacksize ALWAYS matters but the little stat called AVERAGE is only really useful IMHO during a large field when you are curious about where you are overall position wise but from a purely tactical point of view, it shouldnt matter if you are 7th or 1st, you should play the same depending on your stacksize

If you are at 1200 chips and are at the 50/100 level, you basically have 12BB... you shouldnt be x3 raising at these levels anyways really, its too much but if you are you should only be doing so with a larger stack because when you have 12BB or less it should be a shove or fold.

The C-Bet is a good tool if you can use it wisely.

There is however a difference between a C-bet and a C-bet bluff.
If you C-bet it and have a hand (Top pair or better) then fine but if you are C-bet bluffing like in the example above you shouldn't be doing it just for the sake of it.

A C-bet bluff is something a lot of players over-use and personally I try to avoid using it unless FT, ideally if I have a good stack and any other time only when I have a read on my opponent that I know he would fold to it.

Like any bluff, this is upto you but especially in the Micros, i recommend avoid bluffing until you are good enough to do it without worrying about it. Its one of those "If you have to ask, you shouldnt be doing it" things.

Now.. lets say you are in there with the right stacksize (i said 12BB is a shove but say 15BB with a minraise here could be ok)

You get in and have hit nothing. Perhaps an AK/AQ type hand and no ace or K/Q. Being the pre-raiser you do have some equity in the hand to represent something that is strong. So what do you bet?

If you are C-Betting either as a bluff or actual C-bet then it should be 50%. If you feel that your stack size is too weak to stand a raise, then don't bet. If you feel your opponent won't respect your C-Bet bluff, then don't bet.

Pretty much most of the time, if you have to think too hard about making a C-bet, you shouldn't be making it in my experience.



And lastly onto your last point... dont assume checking shows weakness. It is sometimes quite hard to catch a hand, especially on a short STT. Just because you didnt hit, don't assume he didn't either and don't assume that even if he did hit he isn't willing to take a free card.

Remember that with good TAG style you want to be dominating as much as possible. It is hard to see the wood for the trees sometimes when you spend ages waiting for a hand and then when you catch one, you are so keen for action you can be willing to go broke for Ace High.


The fact is that others can advise you to bet x3 or not but if you get in there for a min.raise at these levels you are not bloating the pot so much that by the time your opp. calls it, a c-bet of 50% gets your pot committed with a short enough stack so that if you are bluffing and the turn doesnt help you, you have to get it in and if you had the flop but the turn made your opponents hand then you still have to call his raise since you are committed in that spot.

In that situation you might as well have shoved preflop to put your opponent off his 65o hand that caught 66A5 on the turn.


If you do reduce your bet sizing you can get involved in pots like this with a good escape plan. You wont need to x3 it, just minraise it and then if you do hit, c-bet it... if you don't check/fold your way to either a better free card or a quick exit.


Don't be willing to ship your chips in just because you had a good hand preflop that didnt hold up. Give your opponent the flop pot if you like because it is far better than the alternative which is playing poorly to DRAW an overcard and paying your opponent off much more.



So in summary -
>C-bet bluff is a bad idea unless you know what you are doing, avoid it!
>C-bet if you hit the flop with Top Pair or better
>If your stack is 12BB or less, shove preflop - don't raise
>After the 50/100 stages you shouldnt be x3 raising. At best a min raise but at worst 2.5x because you arent as deep as you were in the early stages and unless you have a monster preflop, you are making a gamble with your raise that your hand is good enough to catch a good flop... if it doesnt and you want to get out of there, you don't want to be pot committed!
>Try to keep your bet sizing the same to avoid tells. Don't make it x3 for AA and minraise for AT, stick to one thing.

Hope this helps
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:54 AM
(#5)
ArtyFishal's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 3
Wow, thankyou for all the replies. Found them very in depth and informative, and I'll be sure to put some of things ive read into practice
 

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