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My Challenege Through The 45 Man STTs

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My Challenege Through The 45 Man STTs - Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:48 AM
(#1)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
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Edit 2 on 06/01/13, to comply with the Time Vault promotion I've added my goals here: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...698#post384698
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Edit on 19/12/12
To avoid confusion, these are 45 Man SNGs found under the Sit and Go Tab. I may call them by another name but these are the games I am referencing.
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This started off in the Brags forum but I typed so much I thought it better to keep a regular record of how I'm playing in these for my own benefit. I'll put up some strategy (not too much!) and also a few spots where I have trouble with.

I'll use this blog for short term results and 45 man STTs only. I'll update my main blog for longer term results and other games.



This is filtered for 50 cents 45 Man STTs only. I have a 49% ROI in 378 games. I have played other games including the $22 Micro Millions Main Event and several other games which takes away from this graph, nevertheless I'm still 20%+ ROI for the past month which I'm really happy with.

I came to these from 6 max Limit STTs where I had an overall ROI of 13% in 6,000 but I was restricted in moving up as there's a few decent players at higher stakes and the player pools were to small to avoid them. Why play against good players when there are so many bad ones?

I know variance can be a killer so I thought I'd start these from the bottom up. Initially I played these 1 table at a time to get a feel for them but moved to 10 tables as I found I was cashing regularly. Mentioning variance, there are spells of 20+ games where I failed to cash in these. If I were playing 1 at a time and seen I lost 20 in a row, I'd think I was the problem and probably move away from these games. I'm not suggesting you should 10 table these at a time but that you realise that poker is a short term game of luck and a long term game of skill.

I analyse after each batch of 10. I find I'm studying my game about 30% of the time. I'm always asking myself if I could play a hand differently. I've also found I'm a lot more aggressive and in position which has taken my game to a new level. I'm also aware of my opponents play.

Finally a little bit of strategy.



I'm not one for making hero calls but this hand stuck in my head. We are all similar stacks and this is 3 handed on a final table. I had a read on this hand, my opponent was shoving every button and I guessed correct that I was ahead. I'm only a marginal favourite in this hand but my line of thinking is if I win the hand I'll win the tournament.

If I were 1 tabling these I'd probably make the fold but by volume playing these I can make the hero calls as I know that long term results will improve in spots like these. I lost in this case but I'll make this call over and over again, it's +ev in the long run.

I really think my game has changed in the past month and really happy with my play. I want to move up but my laptop is doing my head in. It's costing me chips and money.

Last edited by Ovalman; Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 11:35 AM.. Reason: added edit
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:57 PM
(#2)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
10 games just played with 2 final tables 5th and 7th. Slightly annoyed with my play but I wasn't concentrating as I was listening to the footy. Annoyed about my 7th placed exit:



My opponent was a shovetard and he's ultra short stacked. This play screams of a monster but I only seen my own hand. I was also chip leader when this final table started so to finish 7th is disappointing. I called 1 short stack all in with 44 but it was a marginal call and probably a fold in retrospect. The best I could have hoped for was a coinflip.

I'm also annoyed about my play in my other games. I didn't give them my full concentration and I made some silly mistakes. I'll play a MTT or later but that's me for tonight where multi tabling is concerned.

-$2.48 over the session.
 
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stt = mtt? - Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:47 PM
(#3)
Lolpoos69's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Hey dude you know STT stands for Single Table Tourney?

and your playing 45 mans, those are MTT ( Multi Table Tourney )
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:00 PM
(#4)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
The games are under the Sit & Go tab.

I agree it's a MTT and points are awarded for a MTT finish. It's a bit pernickety but I'll keep calling these STTs as there's a game starting every minute.
 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:51 PM
(#5)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Hey Ovalman,
Good call with your read but Unlucky with your K4 hand.
You know they say once your 3 handed you should play to win.
Good Luck with it.
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:28 AM
(#6)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
My point with the K4o hand was I'd never before think about calling in spots like this. I'm only a 55% favourite but making calls like this in the long run will make me money. If I were 1 tabling or if it were a major tournament final I'd probably fold but making decisions like this will be +ev in the long run.

Gonna start my Sunday grind.
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:54 AM
(#7)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
9 games played, 4 final tables with an 8th, 7th, 6th and 4th. Made a small loss (-6 cents). Slightly unlucky and card dead, I could have limped to the cash in my bubble play but I don't think I'll get many better spots than this:



Next batch on the way.
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:19 AM
(#8)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Another 11 games under my belt with 3 final tables, 7th, 4th and 3rd.



I had this muppet all in several times, every time my chips were ahead. KK v A6o etc. He hit as usual. I got frustrated and said a word or two at the table, I never swore or abused but I shouldn't have said anything. I need more discipline and stay quiet and focused. I also made a major mistake in this game AQo v KK. The min raise tell that screams "I have a monster" but I tried to play him off a flop, stupid and costing me chips.

I'm in the green after this spell but not making much in the way of profit.

Another set coming up.
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:03 PM
(#9)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Pretty poor session with no luck whatsoever. 2 final tables, 8th and 6th. Had KK, QQ (v KJo twice all in pre flop), JJ cracked along with running JJ into QQ etc. Don't think I played particularly bad.

Thoughts on this call? This was my bubble play.



This was the against the table maniac, 40% VPiP, 30% PFR and he'd raised every hand by this amount on the final table.

J7o would be towards the very bottom of my calling range but I think it's still ahead of his range?

-$3.49 over the course of the day.
 
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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:48 PM
(#10)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
No luck/ bad play and failed to cash in any of my last set. A few final table bubbles but just couldn't win a flip. 66 v A8o etc. blah blah blah.

That's me finished for tonight except for the Pokercast game. I know I'll have days like this but I also know I'll have more profitable days so I'm not too worried.

My overall ROI is now 38% and has taken a dent but I said when I started I thought my ROI was unrealistic. I think my play was too aggressive today and I called too many coinflips. Winning coinflips can mean profit and loss but it's the play without seeing one that wins the most money.

I'm not going to move to $1.50 games until I've made my losses back + $15 profit.

I'm going to cut back these updates to daily as I don't like spamming the forum with my inane ramblings.

Think I'll do a bit of studying for the rest of the night.
 
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LIttle Help. - Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:26 PM
(#11)
Lolpoos69's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Hey dude that hand with j7o, thats a snap fold. This is push or fold stage of the tourney and you are certainly on a fold. Your range for calling a shove ( i know he didnt shove but your all-in to call) should be even tighter then your shoving range because when your the one who shoves you can get the blinds.

You need to know that when you have less then 10-13 blinds left, the game is mostly math, not so much read based.

You have enuf blinds left to hope for any ace, pocket pair, even a suited j/q/k with higher kicker would be alot better.

The term for Sit n Gos is SNG there are a number of tabs under the SNG tab, there is "1-table" (STT) and "Multi table", these are referred to as MTT SNGs or just SNGs, NEVER STTs. Just trying to help you out dude.
 
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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:45 PM
(#12)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Yes, in hindsight it was a poor call although I still think it was ahead of his range considering he'd raised every hand.

It's easier on the tongue for me calling these STTs so I'll keep with it I think everyone knows what games these are

What a difference a day makes. I just played 2 sets of 10 winning 2 games along with 1 5ths, 4 6ths and 2 7ths. Just reviewing my exit hands tonight in descending order:

KK v QQ called all in pre flop
AQo v A8s called all in pre flop for 8BBs
A7o v 88 v A9s, shoved all in button shove for 7 BBs
AJo v KQo v KQo shoved all in pre flop for 5.5 BBs
KTo v AKo shoved all in pre flop for 1 BB
ATo v 44 called all in for 5 BBs
K8o v AKo blind steal shove for 5 BBs v's a rock
TT v KQs v ATo all in shove for 2 BBs

I could go on. I'm happy with my play, just not getting the luck at times but I know it comes and goes. The only hand I remember getting really lucky was Q5o v QQ shove versus a rock over 5 BBs. Everything else I usually got my chips in ahead or close to even money.

Last night's losses are nearly wiped out, 63% ROI today and 25% in the money. Overall ROI since I started is 39.7%. Overall graph, filtered for 50 cents games only:



2 days of my Table Ninja trial left, I really must purchase this software although XMas comes first. I might wipe my PC and reinstall everything and see if that helps my disconnect problems. I might get another trial of TN It's unfair though on the developers of TN so I will purchase this as soon as I can.
 
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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:57 PM
(#13)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post
It's easier on the tongue for me calling these STTs so I'll keep with it I think everyone knows what games these are
Some of us may know what you mean, but it's confusing to newcomers. STT is short for Single Table Tournament, what you're playing are SNG
tourneys, short for Sit aNd Go.

STT's are never more than 10 players, while SNG's can be for almost any number. This is a school, we should try to use the correct terminology (especially since your tongue isn't involved, just your fingers, and SNG is just as easy to type as STT).

 
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Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:14 PM
(#14)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
Some of us may know what you mean, but it's confusing to newcomers. STT is short for Single Table Tournament, what you're playing are SNG
tourneys, short for Sit aNd Go.

STT's are never more than 10 players, while SNG's can be for almost any number. This is a school, we should try to use the correct terminology (especially since your tongue isn't involved, just your fingers, and SNG is just as easy to type as STT).

Thanks for the feedback. I have updated my opening post to avoid confusion.

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I didn't play yesterday as I was pretty busy but I cashed in 4 stellar rewards to add $40 to my balance. I'd forgot about these but tonight I dived straight into $1.50 because of this.

I expect a slightly higher standard in these and I did run across one player who has a challenge thread on 2P2. I can't say he's a shark yet but I know he's a 24 tabler and has played 300 in the past 2 days at a $200 profit. There's nothing that I've seen about him to worry me but I'll keep an eye on him and his thread and see how he's getting on.

In a way I'd like to emulate him but play with more knowledge. I know he's played at very high stakes and has a Sharkscope graph with $50k+ profit but I do think his play reflected high stakes which is not always effective at this level.

I played a total of 10 games at $1.50 level tonight, I might play more later. I won 1 and came 4th in another. I made a costly mistake in the game I came 4th:



In hindsight I think this should be a fold. I was raising to bully and each previous raise I'd always shown strong but this is a bubble spot and my opponent will have a far tighter range. I think I'm coinflipping at best (as in this case) but usually far behind. Opponent wasn't a maniac which should have set the alarm bells ringing.

Other than those 2 games I didn't really come close to any other final tables. Standard shoves like AQo ran into AKo so I can't really complain. I did crack AA with AKo but it was all in on a KK flop so while I hit lucky, ultimately it wasn't my mistake.

My trial of Table Ninja runs out today. I can't really afford to purchase it with XMas so close so I'll try and reformat my PC and see if that fixes my disconnects and also gets me a new trial

Since 15th November I've played 20 $1.50 STTs so I'll include that in these stats.

$4.23 net profit, 14% ROI but these stats won't become a true reflection until around 100 games.

I'm a little unsure how to filter out all other games from these 45 Man STTs so I'll stick with filtering by stakes at each level.
 
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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:59 AM
(#15)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Done my reinstall and my network connection seems to be OK (up to so far). My laptop is still overheating, the DVD has broke and I have a charger issue. This is the last Acer I will ever buy, I've had problems with every machine I've ever bought from this company. I know they don't sell bad PCs on purpose but they must use shoddy materials so I won't be buying from them again.

I'm also having an issue with HEM so I've contacted support. HEM has me in negative ROI but Sharkscope and OPR can confirm that the problem is with HEM and not me

Speaking of the latter, I'm close to the top 1,000 in OPR and top 99.79% when you filter my username for the past 120 days. This is pretty good considering I've only been playing 40 of those 120 days. Incidentally, the decent player I mentioned is top of the leaderboard. I know his game, I can adjust to him but as I've now moved up a level I won't have to worry about him again.

I was out on the lash yesterday with friends and I single tabled when I got home. I'd 1 win, a 5th, a bad beat and then this happened:

I tried to outplay a decent player made a silly mistake and as this was close to a final table I didn't need to take the risk



I know I wouldn't have made this mistake if I were sober but come on, no need to rub it in

I'm going to grind today. I may loosen up my bankroll requirements and move up a level quicker. I'm inspired by this thread on 2P2

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-mtts-1278681/

I played this guy on several tables and didn't find anything special. If he can do it then so can I. I think I'll learn a thing or two about higher levels when he makes it.

We'll see after today's results.
 
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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:56 AM
(#16)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
2 wins, a 2nd, a 3rd a 5th and a 6th. My best set of 10 games to date, $46.91 net profits for 90 minutes work I meant to grind all day but I'm a bit tired so only going to play the Pokercast game and maybe 1 or 2 others.

Also getting another 30 day trial of Table Ninja, I WILL pay for it when it runs out this time, I'm having trouble setting up my bet sizing though.

HEM2 tried to help me on their forum but I'm not sure exactly what to do. I may or may not get it fixed

OPR hasn't tracked all my games but give it an hour hopefully. I've applied to unlock all my stats but that was several days ago

EDIT, I mislead you all (doh!) 1 win and a 5th were from last night/ this morning. I filtered HEM for today's results and they were included, stupid My head's not straight since.

Last edited by Ovalman; Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 12:18 PM.. Reason: added edit
 
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Wed Dec 26, 2012, 12:36 PM
(#17)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I've not got into the swing of things poker wise, I had hoped to grind a load of games but I'm just too much in the festive spirit (or should I say spirits) and am not playing much. I'd too much vino yesterday so I only single tabled on XMas Day and only played 4 games (all lost).

Today I had to drive my daughter and tonight I've a few things to do. I did manage to play 6 games today with two 1sts, one 3rd and one 4th. Really pleased and $49 profit for 90 minutes work (I got my profits right today!)



My HEM is messed up after my reinstall, it hasn't recorded a lot of results so I can't give graphs since I started these games. The above graph is from Sunday only. My Sharkscope is open and I've applied to unlock stats on Officialpokerrankings (takes 2 weeks apparently)

I know I'm being lucky but I also know I'm playing well. I think my results are partially due to playing a decent final table. I've always been a semi decent STT player, even before I could ever work out pot odds. I think I can play a decent game throughout and change gears when needed. I didn't know what ICM was until 3 months ago but I have a decent grasp of it without ever knowing the term.

I'm also mostly self taught, tweaking my game throughout the years. I think this has a great advantage over the official line to play poker. I input into threads not because I'm always correct but by learning from others when someone disagrees with my replies.

When I first used a HUD it sent me on total tilt but now I really can't do without it. I only use it as a tool, I still keep copious notes and colour codes but I've identified several player types through the HUD that I just know how to play against. I always try and improve, even when it doesn't need improving. I look at spots were I was lucky or unlucky, for instance an exit hand today was with JJ vQTo all in shove pre flop for 10BBs. I was 70% favourite, I'm happy getting those odds in that spot but I still reviewed the hand and then put a note on my opponent that he calls with such rags.

I also mentioned above that I 10 table these. This I think has actually improved my game. As I said, if I had lost 20 games in a row before I'd have thought it was my play that caused it. Now I just shrug it off as variance. Bad beats happen and I take a lot more than I give.

I once read that if you can crush micro stakes STTs then you should be able to beat medium stakes. This has always stuck in my head but I've always been financially challenged poker wise to move up. I also need to grow a set of swingers, proper bankroll and get to $15 which is where I want to be.

This time I'm determined to make it.
 
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Biggest losing day today - Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:43 PM
(#18)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I suppose it had to happen, my rungood yesterday came to an end today and it couldn't have happened at a worse time.

I moved up to $3.50 and played my first set of 10. I found the game a bit different but I still managed 2 cashes in 7th and 6th. I made a few mistakes but just couldn't get anything to hold up: This was my exit hand from the tourney I finished 6th.



Because I made a loss over the 10 games I dropped back to $1.50. I will take another stab at them when I get my losses back that I've made today.

Worse was to come, I played my next set of 10 $1.50 games and failed to cash in any of them. I just couldn't win a thing, AA, KK 3 times, QQ all got trashed while any flip I attempted was a cert to lose. Frustrating but I know I'm still doing the right things.



I might attempt another set of 10 later, these thing happen, I'd a good enough day yesterday to take the hit.
 
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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:41 AM
(#19)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I didn't play again after my losses, instead I watched Chewme's training session and I reviewed some hand histories. It's interesting seeing how Chewme's game varies from mine, I do play with a different style from him but there's no right way to play Texas Holdem. One thing I did realise I need work on is playing out of position. I don't think it's that important at the micro stakes but I know it will be more important against better players the higher I move through these.

I bought an Archos 80 tablet, it was a brilliant bargain at £49 and I couldn't resist it. I know I need a new laptop/ PC but this was such a bargain I had to spoil myself. I only played 2 games yesterday, both on my new tablet so I was working without a HUD but that didn't stop me cashing I finished 7th and 2nd.

This brought me back to the days when I played poker without tracking software so it's a good message to anyone just beginning in this game. Tracking software will help you massively but it won't magically turn you into a winning player overnight. The only person that can do that is you. Use a HUD for information but get your own game correct first before anything else.

I'm 100% sure many of my mutli tabling opponents are using a HUD but they don't know how to play the game themselves. They may break even in the game but they certainly aren't winners. I mentioned before if you play any game, look to see who the regs are and work out their game. You will come up against these players the most and if you know how they play they will pay you in the long run.

Even though I can make the game profitable, I still work on my game and still make loads of mistakes. I made a costly one yesterday in my heads up play that meant the difference between first and second. I got probably the worst player heads up of all my opponents, he was loose aggressive and no foldem. These players are ideal and I'd take 60/40 shot against them all day.

This was our first hand heads up.



I expected him to raise and why I limped, I had planned to check raise him all in. When I hit the flop I still thought I had the best of it but he was a shovetard and his min raise should have got the alarm bells ringing. I stupidly got my chips all in knowing he couldn't fold and I wasn't that strong with 5 outs.

In saying that I feel if I had have pushed pre flop he still would have called with his K high and the outcome would have been the same but at least in that case I was getting my chips in good and not a 4/1 shot like I eventually done.

I realise I made a mistake but it's good that I realise it. I'm sure I'll make many many more like it but it's plugging leaks like that that wins money. That mistake cost me $5.85c which is the difference between first and second in these.

I've still a bit more clawing back before I can attempt $3.50 again. I've no doubt I'll succeed at this level but I haven't 100 buy ins to stay there. As my losses the previous day showed and that hand also demonstrates, you can play a pretty decent game and still lose, it's called variance and it's the luck factor in poker. Playing good poker long term is the goal and a sensible bankroll to take these variance swings.

Last edited by Ovalman; Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 07:44 AM.. Reason: Gave wrong hand history
 
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Good grind for the New Year - Tue Jan 01, 2013, 06:26 PM
(#20)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Very happy with my first day of the New Year.

I played 30 games in total in 3 batches of 10. I ended up with 1 win, 3 2nds, 2 5ths, 1 6th and 3 7ths. I also finished on 3 other final tables losing with hands like AKs v JJ. I also made a few mistakes but overall I'm pleased with my day and I ended up with a net profit of $35.46 and an ROI of 78.8% If every day was like this I'll be a happy bunny.



I also noticed a great feature in TableNinja where you can drag tables to designated slots on your computer. This is especially handy where you need to take focus on a table. This is performed with the click of a keystroke.

As a result, I'll maybe try tomorrow playing more tables and instead of playing my games in batches, I'll play say 30 in total, keeping 10 open at a time and putting any final tables on a separate slot so I can give it more attention. I might also increase the amount of tables I have open at a time but I'll have a think about this.

I just noticed (after playing nearly 1,000 of these 45 man SnGs that I get less VPPs per game than the 6 max I was playing. This means less rake taken but it also means I will have to play more games or higher stakes if I ever reach Supernova.

I had made my assumption of playing 30 games per night over the course of 300 days per year. I was doing my sums based on the 6 max games that I was playing. Calculating now I should make Silver Star this month OK (as it's only 500 points) but it also makes Supernova a bit harder. Supernova has always been a target of mine but it's nothing set in stone. If I'm churning over a 30%+ in $1.50 games but say dropped to a loss or break even in $15 games by reaching Supernova then it makes far more sense hitting that 30% mark as the $1.50 means more profit.

I won't know until I move up stakes and play a few hundred games at a level.

I'm still getting disconnection issues but not as many and very few crashes. I'm going to buy a new laptop but I want to build a decent set up like the Horror's so I can grind. That's for the coming weeks.

Last edited by Ovalman; Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: 3 x 7ths
 

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