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5NL - What do we put our opponent on and how do we proceed in this pot?

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5NL - What do we put our opponent on and how do we proceed in this pot? - Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:46 PM
(#1)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi,

What's the best line to take once we hit trips and we get min re-raised after we c/r flop?

Do we put our opponent on a T here or QQ? The line he takes looks strong. How do we proceed?

From his stack size and his min open, I think we can safely assume our villain is a fish

 
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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:56 PM
(#2)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Do you have a read on this villain from previous hands?

If the answer is yes that will affect how we proceed. If No then we proceed with some caution.

Grade b

ps I'm very very poor at 6 max but is calling with 8To in BB a good move here?


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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:31 PM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
I probably fold pre, despite the very tempting pot odds, as T8 doesn't play so well oop.
If you DO play this hand, then you've got to be prepared to stack off when you flop a monster.

As played, I'm never folding here. I'd treat villain's minbet as if he'd checked. He usually has a Q or a straight draw, so I'm raising for fat value and stacking off if he comes over the top. Naturally, villain will show up with the case 10 and a better kicker sometimes, or even QQ, but you can't put villain on the 2 or 3 hands that beat you and just give up.

In short, if you're not willing to stack off with trips when you play T8, then why play the hand in the first place? Were you hoping to flop quads?
 
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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:23 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi geo,

I would generally just fold this preflop, I don't think it's going to be profitable long term to play this out of position here.

Given that he's started with only 57bb's I'm never folding post flop. His flop action is probably a hand he views as strong (which includes better hands than ours but may well also include hands like QJ+ for that matter), or just making a move with a hand like AJ. I'm inclined to raise again here, make it like .95 to go which gives him some room to spazz out with AJ or AK and also a sizing he's very unlikely to fold QJ+ to.


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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:44 PM
(#5)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
.. f

Last edited by geoVARTA; Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 04:49 PM..
 
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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:45 PM
(#6)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I raised and got it in. He had JT.
Regarding the call preflop. We have to call 0.05 into 0.25 which means we would only need to win 1 in 6 hands to make it profitable and I figure against a 23% BTN steal range and a tight SB calling range we have around 20% equity. Hence, the call.
 
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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:45 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
I raised and got it in. He had JT.
Regarding the call preflop. We have to call 0.05 into 0.25 which means we would only need to win 1 in 6 hands to make it profitable and I figure against a 23% BTN steal range and a tight SB calling range we have around 20% equity. Hence, the call.
Hi geo,

This is a common misapplication of pot odds. If we were going to be all in then we would take these pot odds with T8o or 72o for that matter. But we're not all in, there is still money left to bet after the flop. So we also have to consider how deep the money is and the post flop playability of the hand. Because of our position, the hand, and lack of initiative, we will often be forced to fold on the flop and not get to showdown some of the time that are included in your equity calc. For instance in this hand if the flop were AK8, we would have pulled ahead and running out the board to see who wins, it would be us almost 70% of the time now. But with money left to bet we are going to check-fold the flop most of the time to a c-bet here and not be able to realize that equity.


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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:27 AM
(#8)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
understood. I think I can see where I'm spewing from the blinds. Have to revisit HEM
 
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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:58 AM
(#9)
kingkong263's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 175
i think u made a good call preflop . like u said u were getting 5 to 1 on a call. if u fush fold and wait 4 aces your post flop game will never get better and thats where u win money. and if u dont give action who is going to play with u when u do raise? playing the nuts will work fine for a time . try thinking about the actions preflop and after the flop .
 
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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:19 AM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong263 View Post
i think u made a good call preflop . like u said u were getting 5 to 1 on a call. if u fush fold and wait 4 aces your post flop game will never get better and thats where u win money. and if u dont give action who is going to play with u when u do raise? playing the nuts will work fine for a time . try thinking about the actions preflop and after the flop .
No one's suggesting he wait for the nuts or for aces to play from the blind. Not sure how you get that out of my posts, but that's not at all what I'm saying.

You can improve your post flop skills without paying the price of tons of -ev situations too... and still be playing a lot of more speculative hands in the process.


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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:25 PM
(#11)
kingkong263's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 175
true . well said

Last edited by kingkong263; Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:54 PM..
 

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