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Zoom j8o BTN vs unknown BB

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Zoom j8o BTN vs unknown BB - Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:11 PM
(#1)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114


Didn't have any reads and was basically just trying to steal the blinds.

Should I have raised his flop bet? In hindsight postflop It looked like he was on either on a draw, had a PP, weak ace or two pair, set, and was trying to trap me. But if he was on a draw the river call doesn't make a lot of sense and if he had a set for a full house or an overpair I would of expected him to raise me on the turn or river rather than call.

So is it more likely he had PP weak ace or something else marginal with showdown value that he wanted to see to showdown cheaply?

Also any advice on how I played the hand is always appreciated.

Last edited by Guyguyson; Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 09:51 AM..
 
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Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:16 PM
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**moved to more appropriate forum since it's a cash game hand JWK24**


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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:19 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
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Hi guy,

Preflop steal is fine. On the flop I think generally I don't expect a random villain (no reads) to have an ace when they donk into us... most players tend to check to the raiser when they hit the ace. And vs. a button steal he probably should check to us and let us c-bet all our missed hands if he holds an ace.

I would actually treat the flop min bet of .02c as a check and raise it to about .15c. This is mostly for value against weaker pairs and more specifically, draws. It's a pot sized bet but if he's going to take a card off with gut shots like KQ or QT we want him to pay for those. Also we don't have to be too worried about bloating the pot a bit vs. draws and getting ourselves tied in later in the hand since we only have 2nd pair/no kicker... if we get popped or bet into big later on when a draw completes we can pretty comfortably fold. And finally, the threat of US holding an ace becomes very real when as the preflop raise we raise on the flop... so if he is testing the waters with a better jack like QJ or JT, by continuing the initiative we can often get those hand strengths to fold (probably not now, but to another barrel on the turn if they don't improve).


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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:18 PM
(#4)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
I understand why raising a min bet on a board like that makes sense in a normal game but from my experience in zoom a min bet tends to be an attempt to trap or get an extra bet out of an in position player. Because everyone plays so tight in zoom I've seen people limp call premium hands like aces or AK and then min bet flops hoping they get raised and then they either min re-raise or call and hope their min bet gets raised again on the turn. Basically they take huge risks when they have a made hand to get someone with something like TPTK pot committed.

I might just of had a bad experience with plays like this in zoom and be running a bit scared but that's why I didn't want to raise his flop bet and was intending to check fold to any normal sized bets on further streets if my hand didn't improve.

Also I had no reads on the guy so I didn't want to try any fancy bluffing with scare cards or cards that wouldn't help someone on a draw.
 
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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:39 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
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I generally operate by the rule that weak bets mean weak hands until I see differently from the villain. So readless I'd go with that here and if he turns out to put in a big aggressive action later in the hand (and I have to fold), or shows down some slowplayed big hand, then I'll add a note regarding his min-bet on the flop and not be readless next time.

If we raise the flop here he's not really getting an extra bet out of us... he only bet .02c so we're treating it like a check and raising an amount similar to what we would likely be c-betting anyway (maybe a few cents more, but similar). If he min-reraises to .28c we have an easy fold imo... no different than if he check-raised a c-bet. So when he's strong we aren't really losing more, but when he is in fact weak we are charging him more to continue and not giving him free cards.


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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:07 PM
(#6)
Guyguyson's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
But what if he calls? Then I have no idea if he's weak or not, do I keep up the aggression or slow down and give him a chance to bluff me off a better hand? I've seen people check call all streets with the nuts in zoom because of how tight the majority of the players are even in 2nl.

Last edited by Guyguyson; Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 03:31 PM..
 

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