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# Bankroll Builder

 Bankroll Builder - Tue Jan 01, 2013, 06:06 AM (#1)
Hi there,

I've just signed up to PokerSchoolOnline and I want to know if I qualify for this promotion?

Thanks

Pumpkin

 Tue Jan 01, 2013, 06:23 AM (#2)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pumpkin456 Hi there, I've just signed up to PokerSchoolOnline and I want to know if I qualify for this promotion? Thanks Pumpkin
Hi Pumpkin456

We will advise within 24 hours as to whether your account is eligible. Here is a >>link<< that will help to get you more familiar with the things that PSO has to offer.

Raiser

Moderator

Bracelet Winner

 Tue Jan 01, 2013, 08:25 AM (#3)
Thanks Raiser

 Wed Jan 02, 2013, 07:35 AM (#4)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pumpkin456 Hi there, I've just signed up to PokerSchoolOnline and I want to know if I qualify for this promotion? Thanks Pumpkin
You are eligible for the Bank Roll Builder promo!

The next thing that you will need to do is to attend one of the 'Getting Started' live training sessions. Ask the Live Trainer plenty of questions while you are attending, it's the best way to learn.

These sessions can be found daily in the Live Training section.

Please let me know as soon as you have attended this session.

Raiser

Moderator

Bracelet Winner

 Fri Jan 04, 2013, 04:17 PM (#5)
I've just completed the 'Getting Started' training session with ChewMe1.

What do I need to do now?

Thanks

Pumpkin

 Fri Jan 04, 2013, 05:25 PM (#6)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pumpkin465 I've just completed the 'Getting Started' training session with ChewMe1. What do I need to do now? Thanks Pumpkin
Hi Pumpkin465,

We can see that you did attend the session today. Did you find it useful? Did you learn something from it that you didn't know before?

Next Step

Next up play some 9-handed full-ring play money tables. Make sure the tables have no empty seats.

Find a hand that caused you difficulty or cost you chips and using the hand replayer post it here in the Forum.

Here is a video on how to use the hand replayer.

Once you've posted your hand we will analyse it for you and then continue on from there.

Raiser

Moderator

Bracelet Winner

 Sat Jan 05, 2013, 06:55 AM (#7)
Thanks Raiser. Below is a hand that I'd like to be reviewed:

I've not been at the table long, so no specified reads on players tendencies. All assumptions are made from previous observations of play at this level.

UTG1 raises to 28xBB, folded round to the button who calls, SB raises all-in to 147.

The raise by UTG1 is a little surprising, players normally want to limp and see a cheap flop, though he does have a big stack and players tend to over value their hands somewhat. He possibly has a medium\big pair, an ace of some kind or two broadway cards.

Button's call isn't a surprise but that fact that everybody else folded is (a tight play money table?!). As players seem more than happy to call with any ace, or two suited cards, I don't have a clue what he has.

SB's raise is of some concern though; although players make a lot of calling mistakes and questionable raises, when they re-raise they tend to have something they feel is big. I'll put him on the same range as UTG1.

I'm in the BB with AKs and have to consider what action to take. Although strength has been shown in front of me I feel that players tend to overvalue their hands and don't really think about what others may be holding. My playing style at this level is to play tight and then win big when I have a strong hand, so I'm not folding.

If I'm not folding I need to decide whether to call or raise. If I do raise then I will push all-in; the pot is already over half my stack and I'd like try to take that down, but as SB is all in (and showed strength) I can't force him out of the pot, and the other players will no doubt call anyway (on past experience). Plus UTG1 has a healthy stack, so they may also call if I do.

I don't really like calling for a third of my stack but if I make a pair on the flop (which I think happens roughly a third of the time?) I think that I'll probably have the best hand and then push all-in. If a flush draw comes I'll check and then evaluate (though as I'll be first to act this is another reason to shove pre-flop?)

I call, so do UTG1 and the button. The flop comes king high; I make TPTK with a flush draw and push all-in hoping to get a call from UTG1 and the button. UTG1 folds, button calls.

My hand strengthens to a flush on the river, button shows Q6s (bottom pair on the flop), SB shows KK for trips kings.

So I got lucky against SB by hitting a flush on the river. I was right when I thought he had a big hand after the re-raise pre-flop, but his range is fairly wide and other than him holding AA or KK I feel that I have him beat on the flop and he will pay me off with Ax and Kx (buttons Q6 did!).

Any advice or comment would be welcome

 Sat Jan 05, 2013, 07:13 AM (#8)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pumpkin456 Thanks Raiser. Below is a hand that I'd like to be reviewed:
Hey Pumpkin456,

Not a problem, we would be happy to analyse this for you.

I've asked on of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you and offer some feedback. He will more than likely do this later on today.

Once it's been reviewed for you I'll advise as to the next step for you.

Cheers,

Raiser

Moderator

Bracelet Winner

 Sat Jan 05, 2013, 12:17 PM (#9)
Hi Pumpkin456!

Great assessment of the table dynamics. All of that information definitely helps when any of us analyze a hand, as the more information that is provided, the better help we can provide. I'll go into a bit more detail than we normally do in the bankroll builder posts, so that I can help to answer your questions and give you a better insight as to what my thought process for it would be.

With AKs, I have an abnormally large raise, a call of it, then a shove.

If I call, it will cost me 146 chips into a pot that will be 408 (35.8%). Against one opp, even if they're playing a tighter range, say a top 5% hand, my hand is worth 49.1% and since my hand equity is higher than the pot equity, it's a call against one opp.

Here is a link to a video of a live training session that Dave (TheLangolier) did on pokerstove. It's the tool that we use for calculating hand equities.

If I'm up against 3 opps and since it's a play money table, I'll use a bit wider range than normal for the opps to see how much my hand is worth. Using one opp at a top 10%, one at top 20% and one at top 30%, I see from pokerstove that my hand is worth only 33.6%. However, if they all stay, my pot equity would then drop to 146 chips into a pot of 592 (24.7%). Since my hand is worth more than what I have into the pot, this is a viable call too.

The reason that I looked at both of these scenarios is to see whether my hand plays well enough against both one opp (if I re-shove to isolate the first shove) or if I call and invite the other two opps into the hand. In this case, it is a positive play for me to call or shove (sometimes it may only be positive to play a hand one way compared to the other).

However, there is one other thing that I need to consider here and that is... Am I pot-committed by calling? If so, then I'm better off shoving instead of calling. The point at when I'm pot committed is when I put 1/3 of my chips into the pot. Here is another video of Dave's on committment decisions. I think this, along with the other link will be two sessions that can help you.

In this hand, I need to basically put 1/3 my stack in preflop, so due to being pot-committed, if I was playing the hand, I'm going to shove preflop and try to isolate the first shove as the dead money in the pot from the other 2 opps makes this a +EV play (one that on average I will gain chips from each and every time). If the other 2 opps come along, so be it, it'll still be a positive play for me and they will not get to see that they hit a part of the flop to beat me before their chips go in. But since I will win a much higher % of the time with AK when heads-up (1 in 2 against one opp vs 1 in 3 with three opps), I'll opt for a re-shove preflop.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

Super-Moderator

6 Time Bracelet Winner

 Sat Jan 05, 2013, 08:40 PM (#10)
Next Step

Now we want to get you playing on the real money tables. Next up, and spend some time on this one , study the Poker Basic Course and take the basic assessment quiz at the end of that course.

Once you have passed this quiz your first buy-in will be credited into your account within 24 hours of passing it. Remember you can earn up to a total of $8 with this promotion. Use this first buy-in to then only play the 1/2 cent fullring real money tables only on PokerStars. Post back here when you pass the quiz, get your first buy-in and start playing these games and we'll continue on from there. Raiser Moderator Bracelet Winner  Mon Jan 07, 2013, 12:45 PM (#11) Quote:  Originally Posted by royalraise85 Next Step Now we want to get you playing on the real money tables. Next up, and spend some time on this one , study the Poker Basic Course and take the basic assessment quiz at the end of that course. Once you have passed this quiz your first buy-in will be credited into your account within 24 hours of passing it. Remember you can earn up to a total of$8 with this promotion. Use this first buy-in to then only play the 1/2 cent fullring real money tables only on PokerStars. Post back here when you pass the quiz, get your first buy-in and start playing these games and we'll continue on from there. Raiser
Thanks Raiser. I've completed the Basic Course, but it was before I knew about the Bankroll Builder.

Hopefully that doesn't affect things

Pumpkin

 Mon Jan 07, 2013, 05:29 PM (#12)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pumpkin456 Thanks Raiser.
Hi Pumpkin456,

You've passed the basics quiz, congrats on that!

Use this first buy-in to then play ONLY the 1/2 cent full ring real money tables only on PokerStars. Playing any other game format will disqualify you from being able to obtain further buy-ins through this promotion.

Post back here when you get your first buy-in and start playing these games, along with a hand that you had problems, or that cost you money, while playing with this buy-in.

Also, please attend an 'Bet Sizing' live training session. This should help too.

Good luck!

Raiser

Moderator

Bracelet Winner

 Tue Jan 08, 2013, 05:02 PM (#13)
Hi Raiser

I've been credited with the first buy-in and I spent a couple hours at a full-ring $0.01/0.02 table. I've also registered for the 'Bet Sizing' live training, so I'll let you know when I've completed it. I tried to play tight and get a feel for things, so I didn't play many hands so didn't have to make any real decisions. However, the below hand did cause me a problem; both myself and the BB had folded to raises from the CO\Button in previous hands. My thoughts on how I played the hand: Pre-flop I felt that A8 was the lowest ace I'd raise with, but would've liked it to be suited. I’m folding if I'm re-raised. On the flop I've not hit anything so I check with the intention of folding to a bet, and BB bets. Had he made a bigger bet I probably would've folded but, mainly due to calling a bluff on the flop and checking down with AK to win (against a different opponent on a paired flop), and having Ad if he's drawing to a flush, I decided to call with the intention of checking it down if he doesn't bet the turn. On the turn An ace hits and I make a bet, BB makes a big raise, which I read as strength and fold. My analysis As this was in my first 2 hours of cash play I've not yet build up default lines players would typically take, but my rule of thumb is check means weak and bet\raise means strong. His small bet on the flop could have been a cry for a call as he had a monster hand, which he then shows with the raise (55, 7x). That being said, he did call my raise pre-flop so could have a bigger ace than me; a bet on the flop with AK to try to take it, and when the ace hits on the turn my bet indicated I have an ace so raising would make sense too. A5 would also make sense if he was worried about me having an overpair to the 5 on the flop. Not sure if pairs 88 to KK make sense given his small bet before an ace comes, then a large one when it does. I think that situations like this will become easier for me after I've spent a decent amount of time playing at this level. Just a bit frustrating when I'm hardly playing any hands and then this happens but I'm pretty sure that I was beaten. Any and all comments welcome. Thanks Pumpkin  Tue Jan 08, 2013, 05:56 PM (#14) Quote:  Originally Posted by royalraise85 Also, please attend an 'Bet Sizing' live training session. This should help too. Good luck! Raiser I attended today's Bet Sizing live training session Raiser. I believe I saw you there too - it felt a bit like my Mum checking that I'd gone to school Pumpkin  Tue Jan 08, 2013, 08:11 PM (#15) Quote:  Originally Posted by Pumpkin456 I attended today's Bet Sizing live training session Raiser. Perfect, yep I saw you there too, did you find the session useful? Did you learn anything new about bet-sizing? I'll also ask one of the hand analysers to look at this hand for you, once he does this we can continue on from there. Raiser Moderator Bracelet Winner  Wed Jan 09, 2013, 04:49 PM (#16) Quote:  Originally Posted by Pumpkin456 Hi Raiser I've been credited with the first buy-in and I spent a couple hours at a full-ring$0.01/0.02 table. I've also registered for the 'Bet Sizing' live training, so I'll let you know when I've completed it. I tried to play tight and get a feel for things, so I didn't play many hands so didn't have to make any real decisions. However, the below hand did cause me a problem; both myself and the BB had folded to raises from the CO\Button in previous hands. My thoughts on how I played the hand: Pre-flop I felt that A8 was the lowest ace I'd raise with, but would've liked it to be suited. I’m folding if I'm re-raised. On the flop I've not hit anything so I check with the intention of folding to a bet, and BB bets. Had he made a bigger bet I probably would've folded but, mainly due to calling a bluff on the flop and checking down with AK to win (against a different opponent on a paired flop), and having Ad if he's drawing to a flush, I decided to call with the intention of checking it down if he doesn't bet the turn. On the turn An ace hits and I make a bet, BB makes a big raise, which I read as strength and fold. My analysis As this was in my first 2 hours of cash play I've not yet build up default lines players would typically take, but my rule of thumb is check means weak and bet\raise means strong. His small bet on the flop could have been a cry for a call as he had a monster hand, which he then shows with the raise (55, 7x). That being said, he did call my raise pre-flop so could have a bigger ace than me; a bet on the flop with AK to try to take it, and when the ace hits on the turn my bet indicated I have an ace so raising would make sense too. A5 would also make sense if he was worried about me having an overpair to the 5 on the flop. Not sure if pairs 88 to KK make sense given his small bet before an ace comes, then a large one when it does. I think that situations like this will become easier for me after I've spent a decent amount of time playing at this level. Just a bit frustrating when I'm hardly playing any hands and then this happens but I'm pretty sure that I was beaten. Any and all comments welcome. Thanks Pumpkin
Hi Pumpkin

I am glad to see you thinking so carefully through your hand. Short answer - good fold

Let's look a bit closer at the whole hand. Preflop it folds around to you in the sb. Against a normal opponent in the bb, I am open raising with and Ax here. Your bet size of 3x was perfect. Getting called doesn't tell us too much. A read on the villain would help, but from what you said he is not playing too many hands. So, we can assume he has any pocket pair, Ax, perhaps suited connectors or two broadway cards.

The flop is just low cards and probably didn't help him unless he has a pocket pair. If you raise preflop and get called by only one oppenent, I suggest c-betting most flops. Had you gotten reraised, you have an easy fold. As played, the villain bet fairly small. This seems to be a sign of strength, but could be a semi-bluff since you checked. If you had a better kicker, lets say AQ, then you could continue with the hand. With A8 and an unclear situation, I would just fold.

You played the turn nicely, you bet with top pair, and folded to a reraise. The villain called you preflop, raised the flop and reraised the turn. A "normal" player isn't doing that with too many hands that you are beating. Good fold

Folding in unclear situations like this is a great way to minimize your losses. Keep at it

GL and have fun at the tables!

Roland GTX

 Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:53 AM (#17)
Hi Pumpkin456,

Now it's time to study the Cash Game course and once your happy have a go at attempting the quiz. Don't rush through the course, there's a lot of content there and the quiz is tricky so spend some time on this.

Once you've passed the quiz post back here and we'll continue on tomorrow.

Raiser

Moderator

Bracelet Winner

 Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:03 PM (#18)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Roland GTX A "normal" player isn't doing that with too many hands that you are beating. Good fold
Thanks Roland GTX.

When reviewing that hand myself I felt I had played it as well as I could but wasn't sure how 'correct' I played it.

It seemed like I had no time at all to process everything during the hand and my decision felt rushed, so your comments will help me when the situation arises in the future.

I suppose it's a bit like sport - you work on things in training so that you're ready for game day

Pumpkin

 Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:28 PM (#19)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by royalraise85 Hi Pumpkin456, Now it's time to study the Cash Game course and once your happy have a go at attempting the quiz. Don't rush through the course, there's a lot of content there and the quiz is tricky so spend some time on this. Once you've passed the quiz post back here and we'll continue on tomorrow. Raiser
I actually completed the quiz before I started my 'Bankroll Builder' thread. But that's the last thing I've done before being asked by you. I promise

I'm finding the 'Bankroll Builder' process a very useful one. As it's gradually introducing me to both playing poker and all the fantastic resources that the site has to offer.

All the trainers in the videos I've watched and live sessions I've attended are both very knowledgeable and very personable; it almost feels like you're having a chat with a friend.

And of course, all you forum guys do a great job too

I know for a fact that without the 'Bankroll Builder' I have probably deposited some money, lost it and then not bothered again. Where as now I feel part of a poker community.

(and did I mention it's all free?!).

Pumpkin

 Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:36 AM (#20)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pumpkin456 I actually completed the quiz before I started my 'Bankroll Builder' thread.
Brilliant! Your second buy-in will now be awarded within 24 hours and it's great to hear that your enjoying your Bankroll Builder experience so far

Use all that you have learned so far to again play some real money games (1/2 cent tables).

Post any hands that you have difficulty with here in this thread using the hand replayer and we will analyse them for you.

Also, attend the 'Cash Basics' live training session. This session can be found daily in the Live Training section.

As always use the time spent at these sessions wisely, for example you could prepare any questions you may have and ask the trainer while you are attending, it's a great way to learn

Raiser

Moderator

Bracelet Winner