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2NL KK utg vs Aggro Fish & Rock - Right Play or No?

2NL KK utg vs Aggro Fish & Rock - Right Play or No? - Fri Jan 04, 2013, 09:59 PM
Christxof's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 256
Had this hand in a cash game recently:

Villain_2 was very loose/aggressive, playing 59/33 over 39 hands. Villain_8 was almost a rock, playing 7/7 over 41 hands.

Was this the right way to play my kings, or should I have been more careful with Villain_8?
Sat Jan 05, 2013, 04:22 AM
Ov3rsight's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
Pocket Kings in UTG. Yay. Raisy Daisy as Sam says. Assuming you always open to 3x, a good open raise.

Two callers, the nit and the loose cannon. Although I like my kings, I'm not a fan of multiway pots with a big pair. I'm thinking 4bet for value here, probably to about 55 cents or so. If we lose one of them all the better. I'm not putting either of them on pocket aces at this point. If the nit has something like AK, QQ, JJ, he might even fold to the 4bet.

You make the 4bet to 60 cents, imho fine play. And what did I say, the nit folds The loose cannon calls, but that is to be expected of a loose player. Any pair, any decent ace, maybe even something like KQ?

Needless to say, we bink the flop. The only hand that beats us is pocket aces. And the odds of that being his hand have just diminished with the ace on the board. We're out of position, but we had the preflop lead so a c-bet is in order. I'd make it about 75-85 cents here.

You check. I don't like the check. Yes, trapping the loose cannon might induce a bluff, but it can also allow him to check it back, peel a free card (not that there's too many that can scare us here), and basically you're missing out on a street of value. Plus - it wouldn't be the first time I see him catch the turn and because of that hold on to his hand when we do bet the turn and then he rivers the winner. If he wants to stay in, he can pay for it...

Well, so far so good as he bets, and pretty big. His bet is pretty bad, leaving 30 cents. He should have shoved. For the same reason, as well as outr own stacksize, we can't flat here. The only move here is to shove.

Of course the board runs out in the most horrible way, because something like AQ and KQ now kills us, but what can you do...

Would like to know what he had though

As far as your question: I think you did fine against the nit. The only reason I see not to 4bet there is if you specifically put him on pocket aces and only pocket aces. Which would be ridiculous...

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Sat Jan 05, 2013, 09:46 AM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
Pre-flop is good, although something like 75c for the 4-bet would be even better (the pot is already 45c before your 4-bet), in order to make it a mistake for the nitty set-miner to call. With the right sized 4-bet, you set yourself up to shove all good flops without overbetting.

AKx is a perfect flop for KK in a 3- or 4-bet pot, as there are lots of decent aces in villain's range. Villain will be unable to fold any ace and you've only got just over a PSB left in your stack, so just jam it in and print money. I guess there's some merit in check-shoving if you think this villain will stab at the pot with an underpair, but I'd just lead out.

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:48 AM..
Sat Jan 05, 2013, 03:00 PM
Christxof's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 256
Thank you for the reply, Ov3rsight.

Normally I wouldn't have checked in that spot, but the way that the maniac had been playing implicated that he would shove his remaining stack in with nothing - not even back-door draws. He had done this before. But I do agree that normally, I wouldn't have done such a thing.

Also, Holdem Manager and the Pokerstars replayer showed that he had 6-4o. THIS was the kind of player it was.
Sun Jan 06, 2013, 09:19 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
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I think your play is fine here. I agree with arty on the bet sizing although it's a small difference, V8 already doesn't have the price to set mine even for the size you chose. I like in between the 2, .65-.70.

On the flop I like how you played it... I actually don't think jamming is the best play because we give a LAG spewer a chance to fold his garbage. If he's got an ace it won't matter what we do, the money will go in, but if he's got a hand like 77 he will probably just fold, where as being so aggressive if we check to him it's very easy for him to convince himself we have QQ and try to move us off it by jamming himself. I mean it could be true either way but I think there's more EV to letting a hyper aggro spewer do his favorite mistake and punt it in himself.

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